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Guinness check valve problem - HELP!!

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  • Guinness check valve problem - HELP!!

    I got a keg of Guinness in for St. Pat's. I got it all hooked up and noticed I had a leak on the air side. I found the leak at the connection of the air line to the coupler. I tightened the nut and it didn't help. The U coupler has a weird check valve with metal insert.

    I have this coupler...

    http://www.micromatic.com/draft-keg-beer/taps-faucets-pid-G408.html

    ...and I set it up according to the chart under "replacement parts". I used the check valve, the metal insert, and the standard coupling washer. After finding the leak, I turned off my nitro and untapped. After disconnecting the air line, I took the metal insert out and re-tapped - no leak! I noticed the metal insert is not dented from me tightening, but I don't think it was like that til after I tightened it AFTER finding the leak.

    Do I need this metal insert? If so, what am I doing wrong?

  • #2
    pig140,
    Take a breath and relax, I don't think you really aren't doing anything wrong, just missing something, you must remember that every coupler manufacturer have their own way of setting up the check valves, this has 2 rubber and one metal, others have 1 plastic and one rubber, others 1 rubber.
    The "U" gas check from MM is actually a 3 part system, you have the standard coupling washer (neoprene washer), metal insert and the duckbill valve. I'm not sure if you are confusing the neoprene with the duckbill but if one is missing and metal insert is inside, gas will leak, you need ALL three parts for the gas check to work properly. Confirm what parts you have or missing.
    KB

    Comment


    • #3
      If you are using the 5\16 nipple from a standard "D" system Micromatic coupler you will notice that it isnt flat on the bottom. If you used this part this could be the cause of your leak.The "U" guinness coupler is designed to use with a flat 5\16 nipple. If you removed the metal piece on the check valve this is now allowing the extra piece on the non flat nipple to slide into the check valve and sealing it.
      Colin Harrison
      Dbi Beverage Chico

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by spdbump View Post
        If you are using the 5\16 nipple from a standard "D" system Micromatic coupler you will notice that it isnt flat on the bottom. If you used this part this could be the cause of your leak.The "U" guinness coupler is designed to use with a flat 5\16 nipple. If you removed the metal piece on the check valve this is now allowing the extra piece on the non flat nipple to slide into the check valve and sealing it.
        This makes perfect sense, and I bet that is the issue. As I told the OP in another thread, I installed my new MM U coupler exactly as delivered, including replacing the nipple and hex nut on the air line with the ones that came with the U coupler. However, it would have been easy to just thread my exisiting hex nut/nipple set up onto the new coupler. I can't claim that I was obervant enough to notice the difference in the nipple. I'm just very anal and do everything "by the book."
        On: Kona Pipeline Porter, Redhook Longhammer IPA

        Gone: NB - 5xRanger, 8x1554, Red Hoptober, Day, Coffee Chocolate Stout, SN 3 xTorpedo, 2xPale, 2xCelebration, Highland 3xOatmeal Porter, Coffee Porter, Terrpain Wake-n-Bake Stout, Widmer - Porter, Shaddock IPA, SA Octoberfest, So Tier - Choklat, Mokah, 2XStout, Great Divide Yeti Stout, 4xHoly City Pluff Mud Porter, Coast HopArt, Smithwicks, 3xSweetwater 420, 2xFoothills HoppYUM IPA, Redhook Pils, Conquest Black IPA

        Comment


        • #5
          I don't think the standard "D" has this flat tailpiece, it all depends on which coupler you get, the Magners "U" coupler has the flat tailpiece. The part #404-321, is the culprit, I tried to put a standard neoprene washer on this part and if the metal insert from gas check is used it may not make a full seal. I don't know if this is a design flaw or mistake but all you need is an extra washer and it should work. If you do use the gas check without metal part, just be sure not to tighten nut too much, it might cause rubber gas check to twist or break, but as spdbump says by using the flat tailpiece you will avoid this problem all together.
          KB

          Comment


          • #6
            That's EXACTLY what it was. The standard D does not have a flat tail piece. It has the one with the extended center part (#404-321). Also, I got my U coupler second hand, so there was no tailpiece attached. I went to the MM site for the U coupler to make sure I put everything together correctly. BUT, what had me all mixed up is this - if you go to the "replacement parts" break down of the U coupler on the MM site, and look at item 13, it says to use part #404-321 and both parts of the check valve. I think that's an error. I assume the correct part (item 13) is the flat tailpiece. I already have part #404-321 installed on all my air lines and I was doing it exactly as shown in that schematic. I took the metal insert out of the check valve and now I have no problems.

            Thanks for your responses!

            Comment


            • #7
              pig140,
              Yeah I think it might be an error on part of MM, they do say you need 1 of part #759 (Neoprene Washer). The metal part in check valve keeps everything straight and allows a hard contact between parts, just add a 2 neoprene washers next to tailpipe and everything should work right. If you use without duckbill it might twist and cause problems, or just use a flat tailpiece.
              KB

              Comment


              • #8
                What do you think about the duckbill without the little metal insert and one washer with the standard tailpiece? That seems to be working fine, but I don't want any unexpected problems.

                I'm betting the coupler originally came with a flat tailpiece. I may have one laying around here, but I'd rather not change it out just for an occasional keg of Guinness or Smithwicks.

                Comment


                • #9
                  My guess is the "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" theory applies here.

                  It does look like the MM replacement parts diagram references the wrong tailpiece.
                  Last edited by stn; 03-15-2013, 09:04 AM.
                  On: Kona Pipeline Porter, Redhook Longhammer IPA

                  Gone: NB - 5xRanger, 8x1554, Red Hoptober, Day, Coffee Chocolate Stout, SN 3 xTorpedo, 2xPale, 2xCelebration, Highland 3xOatmeal Porter, Coffee Porter, Terrpain Wake-n-Bake Stout, Widmer - Porter, Shaddock IPA, SA Octoberfest, So Tier - Choklat, Mokah, 2XStout, Great Divide Yeti Stout, 4xHoly City Pluff Mud Porter, Coast HopArt, Smithwicks, 3xSweetwater 420, 2xFoothills HoppYUM IPA, Redhook Pils, Conquest Black IPA

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    pig140,
                    Yeah a flat tailpiece should work with a standard duckbill AND metal insert and duckbill from "U" (if you use a neoprene washer between tailpiece and metal insert).
                    I got a odd question and I guess need clarity, you said:

                    "I'd rather not change it out just for an occasional keg of Guinness or Smithwicks"

                    Guinness and Smithwick's use the "U" coupler AND high nitrogen mix (normally a nitrogen regulator and tank also), so unless you are using the CO2 regulator and tank with high nitrogen mix, you would have to change the tailpiece anyway (the tailpiece with metal edge for nitrogen and flat for the CO2) to serve Guinness and Smithwick's. The only way your statement makes sense us if you are using a CO2 tank and regulator for both or a nitrogen tank and regulator for both. One way is allowed, the other frowned upon.
                    KB

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      I should have clarified... I have a CO2 regulator and tank and a nitro regulator and tank. I put about 8" of air line coming off each regulator, then a quick disconnect. Makes for an easy switch when changing from a regular keg to a nitro keg.... Well, it seemed easy til this situation with flat tailpiece/nippled tailpiece came up. Lol

                      I stuck with the nippled tailpiece, flat washer, duckbill check valve, and no insert.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        pig140,
                        I think I understand now, you have a disconnect you use for both CO2 and nitrogen, you can use the nippled tailpiece with metal insert, just add an extra washer, everything should fit fine, with your other coupler the nipple might actually fit in the duckbill, the "S" I have from MM does this.
                        KB

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by KillianBoy View Post
                          Guinness and Smithwick's use the "U" coupler AND high nitrogen mix
                          KB
                          I am pouring Smithwicks with straight C02 with no problems. From what I've read in other forum posts, Guinness always requires nitrogen, but Smithwicks is fine with just CO2 unless it is a remote dispense with a really long run. I've been running with just CO2 for 10 days now, and pours are perfect with a nice creamy 1" head.
                          Last edited by stn; 03-16-2013, 07:50 AM.
                          On: Kona Pipeline Porter, Redhook Longhammer IPA

                          Gone: NB - 5xRanger, 8x1554, Red Hoptober, Day, Coffee Chocolate Stout, SN 3 xTorpedo, 2xPale, 2xCelebration, Highland 3xOatmeal Porter, Coffee Porter, Terrpain Wake-n-Bake Stout, Widmer - Porter, Shaddock IPA, SA Octoberfest, So Tier - Choklat, Mokah, 2XStout, Great Divide Yeti Stout, 4xHoly City Pluff Mud Porter, Coast HopArt, Smithwicks, 3xSweetwater 420, 2xFoothills HoppYUM IPA, Redhook Pils, Conquest Black IPA

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            stn,
                            Thanks for the catch this is what happens when you have spam on the brain (the moderators know what I'm talking about), I just cut and pasted what OP posted and went with it, according to another thread these are the few high nitro beers (microbrews not included):
                            NewCastle Brown Ale
                            Kilkenny Irish Cream Ale
                            Boddingtons
                            In long runs or rise in elevation they would use the low nitrogen mix instead of the high though.

                            pig140,
                            It depends on which "D" you have and manufacturer, just see if the nipple fits inside the duckbill if not switch disconnect to a flat tailpiece and you should be good, neoprene washer on hex side, metal insert and duckbill on "U" and regular duckbill on "D".
                            KB

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Newcastle is not a Nitro beer. It runs fine on straight Co2 .
                              Colin Harrison
                              Dbi Beverage Chico

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