Classic Foam / Pressure Issue Post

[Beer_]

First post disclaimer. New to kegerators, but not to beer or forums. Researched the interweb and searched this forum for days, still hoping for some clarification. Please keep your flame suits on their hangers for the time being! I live in San Jose, CA for sea level reference.

The Setup:

Dual Tap Kegco K309SS, $700 fr Beverage Factory - Upgraded to the dual gauge, two keg regulator (one pressure, uses a metal splitter). Also opted for Perlick S/S faucets. NO TOWER COOLER. 5' stock beer lines.

The Process:

Unboxed/Installed/Powered on Kegerator. Set box temp to 37DEG, didn't mess with CO2 yet as keg hadn't arrived. Keg arrives next day, a sixth of Anchor Brewing California Lager. I had previously emailed the brewer, and their Taproom Manager told me their beer is keg carbonated to 2.72 v/v. So going into it, hoping for 37DEG beer @ 2.72 v/v, I planned to set my psi to 13psi using a standard beer equilibrium chart I conveniently located by searching here.

So, fearing the keg was agitated during transport, I tossed it into the Kegerator and let it sit for 3 DAYS, also allowing the temp to come down to what I hoped would be 37DEG(didn't use "deep chill" mode, keg not frozen).. I calibrated a thermometer by using crushed ice and water, 32DEG, roger that. I put a different glass of water into the kegerator and let it sit a day. 36.5DEG per the calibrated thermometer. The three days passed so I then successfully tapped the keg and charged it with 13PSI. I waited 24hr longer after doing that to let the pressure I applied take hold.

First glass thereafter was foam, chalked it up to no tower cooler. Next several also foam, less pumped about that. Eventually it calmed down enough for me to take a temp of the poured beer with the same calibrated thermometer, which surprisingly was 36.5DEG...I found this interesting due to reading posts about several degree differences from box to glass.

Then arose what is confusing me, I checked the low pressure regulator gauge and it was sitting at 9psi, several hours later it had NOT crept back to original setting. I poured a few more today at that 9psi and first was foam, second was fine with 1" head, some bubbles in glass, but tasted flatter than Cal Lager usually does. Brewer even said their beer is more carbonated than most. I attributed that to the 9psi obviously. I checked the low pressure gauge after today's pours, and it's even lower now at 8psi. Hasn't crept back up in hours. I ensured the 2nd co2 line splitter shutoff was OFF. Cylinder valve is OPEN.

I fear the beer in the keg is gonna go flat, which I know I can recarbonate, but don't want to touch the regulator until you experts weighed in on what I've done wrong or screwed up. I have NOT checked for regulator leaks yet.

Regulator:

Kegco 542-2 - Premium Pro Series Double Gauge Kegerator Regulator w/ Two Product Out | BeverageFactory.com

Thoughts? Tower cooler will happen. More concerned about possibly bad regulator.

Thanks in advance and thanks for reading. This is obviously user error and I'm actually ok with the flame suits if it helps...

Sam

[KillianBoy]

Sam,
You should get some sort of fan inside unit, this will help with temperature fluctuations.
OK, have you checked the ID of beer line (should be printed on line)? When did you hook up the gas to system? (my assumption is 4+ days with CO2 main valve on), how did you set "box temp to 37DEG"?
Check out my newbie thread, understand air temperature is irrelevant as long as it gets between 45 and 30 degrees then fine, inside temperatures will fluctuate between 55 and 28 degrees (no fan and depending on area of kegerator). without a fan or tower cooler the top of unit will get really warm, as does tower. Really cold beer will be pushed through warm gear and environment, raising temperature of beer a few degrees, your 36.5 degree reading might actually be 32 or 34 degrees, beer could be separating, causing flat taste.
Are you trying to adjust PSI to 12 and keeps drifting to 9? or set at 12 PSI and watched it continually fall?
Try and tug on the pressure relief valve on the regulator, if not steady hiss, more like hiss that disappear, you might have a gas leak.
KB

[Beer_]

Sam,
You should get some sort of fan inside unit, this will help with temperature fluctuations.
OK, have you checked the ID of beer line (should be printed on line)? When did you hook up the gas to system? (my assumption is 4+ days with CO2 main valve on), how did you set "box temp to 37DEG"?
Check out my newbie thread, understand air temperature is irrelevant as long as it gets between 45 and 30 degrees then fine, inside temperatures will fluctuate between 55 and 28 degrees (no fan and depending on area of kegerator). without a fan or tower cooler the top of unit will get really warm, as does tower. Really cold beer will be pushed through warm gear and environment, raising temperature of beer a few degrees, your 36.5 degree reading might actually be 32 or 34 degrees, beer could be separating, causing flat taste.
Are you trying to adjust PSI to 12 and keeps drifting to 9? or set at 12 PSI and watched it continually fall?
Try and tug on the pressure relief valve on the regulator, if not steady hiss, more like hiss that disappear, you might have a gas leak.
KB

Thanks for the reply KB. My kegerator unit has a fan inside for "forced cooling" already. The temp is also set by way of a digital, not analog readout, which is set at one DEG increments. So I can literally set it to 37DEG, which as I stated was later confirmed by way of calibrated thermometer. The ID of the beer lines is 3/16", which from what I can gather appears to be standard. As stated previously, the length of the lines is 5'.

The specific problem I am having is this...I set my reg at 13psi for previously stated reasons. After pouring 3-4 beers, the reg read 9psi and stayed there. I understand sometimes a small psi drop while pouring is normal, but from what I can gather it is supposed to go back to the original setting very quickly if not instantly. Mine did not, it stayed at 9psi. Then the next day I poured two or so more beers, the reg dropped to 8psi. Today, an entire day after that, it remains at 8psi. So my issue is why is the pressure not staying at the originally set psi after pouring?

[KillianBoy]

Sam,
Sorry, it is hard to keep straight the different models from the different manufacturers, it looks like an improved Danby and no need to quote, just post.
There might be a couple of reasons it doesn't pop back up.
1) Stuck needle, if you haven't tried re-adjusting to 12 PSI, try to adjust (regulator valve to off position) to 20+, then leave for a few minutes, then adjust down to <10, leave for a few minutes then repeat. Then set to 12 PSI, open valve and leave, if it happens again, then bad gauge or bad regulator.
2) low or no gas, have you pulled on pressure release valve?
Yes, it should pop back up to original setting, I have this problem with a Haier (Draught Technologies) regulator, after a week the gauge drifts, I reset and usually stays where I set it, Kegco is a pretty decent regulator, don't know where it is built but all it could be is a stuck needle.
KB

[Beer_]

Only quoted so I could address each of your questions while seeing them as I typed, my memory is terrible.

Honestly I think I may be leaning toward the stuck needle idea, although wouldn't that just entail it not moving at all? Or does dropping and staying after pours still fit the theory? Today I poured two more glasses, first foam (guessing warm tower), second was near perfect. 1" head that dissipated pretty quickly though, but beer tasted fine and carbonated. Thermometer read 38DEG in the beer. So I checked the guage and it had lowered AGAIN and now sits at 6psi....sooooo?

Also, new guy question. Does the low pressure guage show what pressure is leaving the cylinder or the actual current pressure inside the keg? I ask because if it's the latter, I'm wondering why I don't have flat beer if the beer is 38DEG with a psi of 8 at time of pour today.

Thanks again

Sam

[KillianBoy]

Sam,
Have you pulled on pressure release valve on regulator? (for the 3rd time)
Low pressure gauge is what you set PSI to using the adjustment knob, this should be pressure being applied to keg, high pressure is what is in tank, should stay in same place till it gets low, then starts to fall.
I have a funny feeling you are out of gas.
KB

[pvs6]

You are as KIllian says out of gas at least as far as the keg's concerned. You're not pushing enough pressure into the keg and the beer is indeed ever so slowly going flat. The mass of beer is great enough that it will take a bit of time to decarb the beer enough to taste the loss and see it in the pint glass. The process you are describing of pressure drop in classic out of gass symptoms. It's possible The needle valve is stuck but if you just do as Killian suggested crank the pressure and try to blow the needle free. I'd uncouple the keg open the reg. to max. then pull the vent ring for a few secounds and let it snap closed. Then dail the reg full closed and pull the vent ring to purge the line of Co2. Then re-couple, try to dail it in back at 13#, if it allows you to then the needle was stuck and if it does it again you will need to replace or rebuild the reg

edit (after thought, When it's uncoupled and as you are purging the line the reg. should read down to 0# when the air stops coming out. If it does then the needles not stuck.) I doubt the needle is stuck since it drops with the pouring of beer. If it returns to 8# when you re-couple You sir are out of gas or have a mysterious blockage between the tank and reg.

Please make sure the line shut off valve is turned on and not off. The lever points the same direction as the line not parallel and tank knob is screwed open. I have be kegging for a while now but I have made both thoses fails at least once in the past.

Until you sort your reg. issue you should un-couple the keg because it is slowly going flat. You don't have to have the keg coupled to diagnose the problem.

[Beer_]

KB - I performed your first recommendation in post #4 above. The needle went up past 20psi and stayed, then I dialed it lower than 10psi and it stayed there too. Then I dialed it back to 12 and it stayed there. I pulled the pressure relief valve and let it close, it instantly went back to 12.

The only reason I'm hesitant the tank is not empty is because I just had it filled and this is the inaugural keg. So I suppose either it was filled wrong (took to a carbonic service place) or there's a persistent leak.

Pvs6 - Thanks for the reply. I'm gonna let the 12psi take hold for 24hrs and pour a couple. Hopefully it's somehow fixed, however if it drops and remains again after the pours, I'll uncouple and try out your suggestion.

Thanks

Sam

[KillianBoy]

Beer_,
Don't know why it came up as a moderated post but good thing I'm a moderator.
No problem, it was actually djc or pvs6 who originally posted that you can do this to a regulator to see if it is a stuck needle, I'm just the one that passed on the advice.
One of the most common problems with newbies is that either they don't fill tank or that a leak occurs, high pressure leak will drain tank in 3+ days, low pressure 7+ days, the symptoms posted kinda pointed in that direction. A stuck needle is less common, could be parts needed to set better and setting high help seat parts, going back and forth kinda snuggles it better.
If it drifts down again, just try and reset to PSI originally set, if next day it drifts, try and do as above and see, if happens again then bad regulator.
KB

[Beer_]

Well this is starting to get discouraging...lol.

Needle stayed at 12psi overnight. Poured a few today, psi dropped maybe 1-2psi and stayed. Beer tasted flat regardless of the foam and some bubbles in glass. So I dialed it back toward 12psi, but overshot and landed at 16psi. Dialed back some and pulled the pin on reg so it'd drop ideally back to 12psi or lower and I'd just dial more carefully back to 12psi. Well no matter what I did, the pressure kept going back to 16psi and staying. I even dialed the reg all the way out to OFF and pulled the pin and the low guage still went back to 16psi. Not sure what is happening.

In the meantime I bought a tower cooler and micromatic reg, the premium dual guage / dual pressure model. $140 or so on this site. Also considering 9' beer lines next, just seems like the beer comes out real fast.

I'm fairly certain the co2 tank is not empty, still very heavy (compared to when it was empty). Uncoupled keg in the meantime.

Dammit I just want a beer haha

[KillianBoy]

Beer_,
You sure the gas check valve installed properly? And if duckbill make sure the lips of duckbill not stuck.
KB

[Beer_]

KB,

Can you please dumb that down for me?

[KillianBoy]

Beer_,
All couplers have some sort of way to prevent beer getting to regulator, normal is the one attached, called duckbill valve, kinda obvious the name, lips should not be sealed in any way.
Sorry but I have to ask, it may be a dumb question but are you disengaging coupler (in off position) when not pouring beer?
KB