Foam problem I just can't seem to overcome.

[johnon]

15.5 Keg: Lagunitas Pilsner
Beer Temp: 40 (recommended 38-42)
Gas Pressure: 12
Tower cooler: Yes
Previous Keg Performance: Excellent

Last week my C02 tank went empty. 2 days passed before I noticed. Got a new tank, cleaned beer line, parts, etc. Hooked it up, started pouring 8 hours later, all foam (90%). The beer seems to be pouring fairly strong. I can see bubbles breaking out in glass, but not all the time.

I took everything apart again to check that I put everything back together properly and that everything was in good condition. Still getting the same situation, foam.

The only things I can think could possibly be wrong
1) The gas gauge is not working properly and I am much higher than 12???
2) The C02 tank is over filled thus forcing way too much gas??? Not sure if that is even possible when the gas regulator is suppose to regulate???
3) Other????

Should I relieve all the pressure out of the keg, then turn gas back on? If this is an option, how long should I wait till I pour? 24 hours?

Any other thoughts?

I've had many kegs, various problems over the years that I overcame , but this one is baffling to me.

Thanks in advance!! I owe you a beer!

[johnon]

Trouble Shooting the not so obvious

I've never had to look closely at my setup but now I am because of the foam issues mentioned in my original post.

D System - Keg Coupler

Check Ball Retainer - how far down should this sit in the probe? Or does it matter much?
Check Ball - when do you replace this ball? Mine is yellow but smooth. What happens if you don't use it?

Between the Check Valve and the Gas Hose Nipple should I be using a rubber washer, a plastic washer, a fiber washer, or no washer at all? In the MM diagram they show none.
As shown here 404 - File or directory not found. link works, then click replacement parts

Can Faucet Collar and Faucet Bonnet cause foaming (ie. not tight enough or over tightened)?
404 - File or directory not found.
link works, then click replacement parts

Should I take the Faucet apart to check internal washers if I am having severe foam issues?

Are gas cylinders labeled differently for stout type beers, a mixed 75% nitrogen / 25% carbon dioxide gas? I bring this question up because I did source my c02 from a new place that primarily sells to home brewers. Since I am having a weird foaming problem (90% foam), I thought I would see if this could be the source of my problems (i.e. it is not 100% c02 when it should be).

90

[KillianBoy]

johnon,
I kinda had the same problem, replaced tank, turned everything on regulator acted funny (ran 20+ and started to flutter), I adjusted and it settled down but found the keg was empty.
Unless you dropped regulator or attached it to tank in not upright position it should be fine, not sure if the initial spurt from tank might have been what happened but the regulator should have kept the gas at the set level. If everything worked before the CO2 tank went empty, unless you waited a long time without cleaning, it should still work.
Just vent pressure release (while gas valve and tank off) and reset to proper PSI and see, no need to shake the keg.

Check ball and retainer keep beer from flowing back toward the coupler, normally the retainer lies flush with washer between it and beer line, if MM coupler check ball should be fine, if Marvel coupler replacing check ball is problematic, MM parts don't fit Chinese/Euro couplers. Normally you don't put a washer between the nipple and gas check, but I do, so I don't damage the gas check, doesn't matter either way.
Just slow down, if you cleaned properly (including the 2 air holes) and put everything back the way it was, it should work.
By your numbers the PSI should be higher, is the 2nd consecutive glass just as foamy or less?
KB

[johnon]

KB,
Second glass is just as foamy as the first. The 10th glass is just as foamy as the first. I am going to take your advice, turn gas valve and tank off, then vent the keg, set psi, turn gas on, let it sit for 24 hours and pray....

I get my kegs at the Lagunitas Brewery. They have told me 13 psi at 38-42 degrees. I have settled in at 12 psi and had great success on the last dozen kegs of Lagunitas Pils(ner). The only thing I did differently when I swapped out my co2 was to tighten the faucet collar. But, I have done that before without issue. Maybe I over tightened it. I am going to back that off a bit but not even sure that could be a source of foam.

When you said 2 air holes, what are you referring to? the Faucet?

It is weird, the first half of the keg poured perfectly, then I ran out of c02, and now foam, foam, foam.

I'll report back.

thanks!!

[KillianBoy]

johnon,
So you pour 10 glasses one after the other, you must have a lot of friends or a serious drinking problem? (that's why I asked consecutive glass), if 2nd+ consecutive is foamy then fine it isn't balance (unless PSI set way too high, which doesn't seem the case).
If you mean the collar that holds the lever (the thing you screw the tap handle into), this has nothing to do with foam, if too loose it MIGHT let beer out but too loose the faucet will also leak, don't think this is it (unless washer and spacer were put in incorrectly). If you over tightened too much tap handle/lever won't move and beer won't pour.
The faucet has 2 small air holes, if blocked may cause foam, 1 under faucet spout, the 2nd right under lever (you have to take everything apart to find this one).
All things even if you cleaned everything right, put everything back right, regulator working right, it should not have made the beer foamy.
A different gas mix might, but if you paid the same price for refill as the last time, it should be CO2, if you still have problems after the vent, I'd ask gas place if they could have made a mistake, incorrect gas mix might cause the foam, but gas mix is more expensive than pure CO2.
Lagunitas Pils was listed here as 2.7-2.8 v/v, 40 degree beer, I get 14.4 PSI, if you are using 12 PSI, 1st glass might be a little foamy, 2nd CONSECUTIVE beer should be better.
KB

[psychodad]

Check the washer between the faucet and shank for damage due to over tightening. If it is a forward sealing faucet, check the seal off for the same type of damage.

[PointPleasantNJBeerguy]

I didn't see it asked, but how about "The Flashlight Test" ? When pouring a beer hold a flashlight to the line. The beer in the lines is there bubbles in it or is it solid beer?Also tightening " faucet collar" Do you mean the faucet shank? Because I have seen these loose plenty of times.If you twisted it the line could be kinked at the elbow inside tower.

[spdbump]

Check the seal on the keg for any chunks missing. Check the bottom seal of your coupler for the same. Make sure your coupler isn't sucking air.

[johnon]

Here is where I am at troubleshooting this issue. And thanks everyone for helping, I REALLY appreciate it!!!!

two days ago I purged the keg of c02, set it to 14psi (normally I settle on 12psi but as Killian Boy correctly pointed out 14 is the right number and recommended by Lagunitas). I let the keg sit 24 hours, still got 90% foam and on consecutive beers. I performed a flashlight test and there were no bubbles, just beer.

This morning 9/10 wed., I took apart the faucet completely. I did find some growth at the intersection of the Faucet Lever and Faucet Shaft in there which wasn't there a week ago. My kegerator is outside, I've noticed if I don't put the cap on the faucet this can happen given the outside temps are 50-90+ degrees with dew at night. The two vent holes were clogged up. The Friction Washer was partially split and the Faucet Shaft Seat Washer was looking a bit old. I replaced both.

I checked the Bottom Seal on the Coupler. Looks perfect. I also checked the keg itself, it looks perfect. I will say one thing. Everytime I have gotten a keg at the Lagunitas Brewery, I have received a brand new, never used keg. This keg I got a beat up one with their blue trademark painted ring faded/worn off. It is not dented to any major degree. Keep in mind the 1st half of this keg poured perfectly, even on first pour.

Spdbump, you said " Make sure your coupler isn't sucking air". I don't hear anything. Would I only hear it when I poured a beer?

I am still at a complete loss as to what is going on. I am going to call the Home Brew store where I picked up the c02 to make sure I got 100% c02. I paid $26 for a 5 gallon. First time I have purchased gas from this place. I am in N.California hence the price...but maybe I was given a mix. I traded an aluminum canister and got a steel one back. I swear I have better luck with the Aluminum canisters.

HERE IS SOMETHING OF INTEREST
When I attached the coupler to the keg after getting new c02 canister, I had beer pouring out of my 90 degree elbow on the vertical end (closest to the coupler). I had a new washer MM part# 759 on both ends of the elbow. I've always used this part. I cranked it down with channel locks more till it wouldn't move and I still had beer leaking out. I then replaced it with a bigger than the hole, thinner washer. That stopped the leak. I've never had to deviate in the past, it is like the pressure in the keg is too high or something and forced beer out right before the elbow. I almost want to say a few years ago I had a similar issue and that was when I last had a steel c02 canister.

Any thoughts?

Thanks again folks!!

[PointPleasantNJBeerguy]

Maybe try running with out you 90 elbow to eliminate it from the mix?And to my question in my other post. Do you have solid beer in the lines or beer with bubbles in the line?

[johnon]

That's a good idea. Ill try removing the 90 elbow tonight. It is 90 degrees and increasing outside right now. It will be interesting to see if the regular washer I usually use will leak or not.

Yes, I have solid beer in the line with no bubbles. Did the flashlight test last night. I did it a few nights ago as well with same result.

thanks

[PointPleasantNJBeerguy]

If you got solid beer in line.Leads me to believe problem is on the dispensing end up top. Do you have a two piece shank where the elbow is removable?Maybe elbow isn't seated all the way forward?Pull tower cap and take a peak inside.Then back to something with faucet still?

[spdbump]

If you untap the coupler and turn it upside down and see bubbles your coupler is sucking air.

[johnon]

Last night, I checked the tower, took off the faucet, reset everything. All looked perfect, no kinks, etc. No change, still pouring 90% foam.

I spoke with the brewing store that sold me the C02. I wanted to confirm I got c02 and not a mix. They told me my regulator wouldn't fit with their mix canisters.

The guy there suggested I purge the gas and then set the co2 to 3psi, then pour. Then keep upping the psi. I got foam coming out of the tap. Previously I get solid beer then foam in the glass (wet, cold, clean). I upped it to 6psi-got foam out of tap, then 8psi-got foam out of the tap, then 10psi-got beer out of the tap but foamed in glass 90%. I stopped because I had drank too much.

Tonight I am going to remove the 90 elbow on top of the coupler after I bring the psi back to 12 range.
I will also check the coupler by flipping it upside down and look for bubbles. Good tip, thanks!

The home brewing company guy asked about my regulator. I told him it is a micromatic. He asked if the psi gauge was bouncing around. It is not. Because my beer is coming out with a fair amount of force than what I previously experience, he thinks it is the regulator, hence why he wanted me to slowly up the psi starting at 3. When I asked why he thinks it is the regulator he simply said he sees way too many problems with the china made regulators, so many that they recently stopped selling them.

Is it possible air is getting into the regulator and mixing with the c02? Would that cause foam?

[KillianBoy]

johnon,
Sure damaged regulator can cause foam issues, but don't think attaching a new tank will do it, it needs to be banged around for damage to occur.
Either you have a really bad coincidence or really bad luck. Either the regulator kicked (got clogged) or small hole in keg spear revealed itself at the exact moment you replaced keg.
How many kegs did you go through before the tank emptied?
KB