Will A Tower Cooler Increase Cycling?

[cm11599ps]

So I finally have a proper tower cooler blower system. Works much better then the computer fans I had.

With that said, how will this affect the cycling of my fridge. I have 2 schools of thought.


1) The blower will make the entire fridge a uniform temperature. My thinking is that is will cycle less frequently. Right? Wrong?

2) The other thinking is that I am now cooling a larger area because the cold air is going to the tower. As a result, some of the cold air is now escaping due to poor tower insulation. As a result, the fridge will cycle more frequently.

Thoughts?

[bonefish]

What I think

1) The blower will make the entire fridge a uniform temperature. My thinking is that is will cycle less frequently. Right!
SEAN

[tfvdw2at]

@cm11599ps - I am going to try to insulate my tower a little better. Once I got the tower cooler installed, I started getting all kinds of condensation on the outside of the tower. You could try that too to get the whole system to hold temperature better, but I have to think that the cooler will cycle more frequently, but be on for shorter amounts of time. By circulating the air, you will make the system work more efficiently and it will not need to stay cooling for as long to get the box down to temperature. Also, the box's temperature will go up faster once it cycles off, as you are drawing the hot air from the top of the draught tower down into the main body of the fridge. I have to think that you will end up running the compressor for the same amount of overall time, just in smaller spurts, occurring more frequently. I have to think though that having the system work that way will result in a more uniform beer temperature. But I am just kind of noodling it through with what makes sense to me. I am open to any holes anyone wants to poke in my theory about how all this would/should work.

[psychodad]

Meh... I haven't noticed any difference as far as compressor cycling. I did notice better pours due to the co2 not coming out of solution in the warm tower though. To me that is what was important.

[cm11599ps]

Meh... I haven't noticed any difference as far as compressor cycling. I did notice better pours due to the co2 not coming out of solution in the warm tower though. To me that is what was important.

Time will tell with me. I just installed the improved tower cooler today AND got a new keg. We'll see what happens tomorrow.

[TomK]

The tower only amounts to a fraction of one percent of additional space to cool, so as long as it's got some insulation in there and you keep the cap on it, I don't see it impacting the refrigeration performance any.

[cm11599ps]

The tower only amounts to a fraction of one percent of additional space to cool, so as long as it's got some insulation in there and you keep the cap on it, I don't see it impacting the refrigeration performance any.

Sure it's not much space, but it's also the least insulated part of the system. Right now I only have the cheap 1/8" or so insulation going around.

I honestly keep really upgrade the insulation too much because of the cooling tower hose and beer line in the 2.5" tower. I will be purchasing a bigger 2 tap tower in the coming weeks/months so that should help with my needs.

[pvs6]

tfvdw2at and bonefish,
These are both valid observations. It will indeed cycle more offen but for short times. However one person who posted yestarday and added a tower cooler has data that reads the compressor works more, ie runs longer cycles. But not that very much as I see it. Heck I don't have to tell you guys what you already know but just will anyways, cuz I can be dickish when I'm in to my cups. Yeh the weakest link in the chain is the braking point. In own case this is the tower. Looks cool but makes no sense. You're got a raditor in front of your car for heat transfer and your unit has one too in your tower. A lot of people cool them but few insulate them. WHY? this thing is wisking heat like crazy. The unit has 1 1/2 insulation at worse and the tower has 1/4" best. Do you really what the compressor to work to cool that un-aided space

[mjn]

tfvdw2at and bonefish,
A lot of people cool them but few insulate them. WHY?

I added my tower cooler, then 2 weeks later I added much better tower insulation. I noticed no difference in the pour or cycling(time or frequency). I was mid keg, so the keg was already at temp and humming along nicely. Main differnce is my tower doesn't sweat now. So there is a gain there, but is it significant? ...it doesn't seem to be in my case.

[pvs6]

Hello mjn,
"is it significant?" I think so. But is it drastic no, just another improvement. Does it lower run time, yes if the laws of thermodynamics are correct. The tower sweating is sure evidence that heat is exchanging at that point. If you're trying to keep a steady state in temp. and the cold is escaping then the compressor must do more work to overcome the temp. loss. But you are correct the gain with tower insulation in the short term may be so small that it seems unnoticable in compressor run time with out precise measurement so as to appear negotiable. But in the long term even if you only save one second of compressor run time per cycle it adds up, saving both energy cost and compressor life. How did the tower cooling work out for you, big change in 1st. pours?

[squeakr]

I don't entirely agree. If the correct laws of thermodynamics apply as was implied, then in theory the tower cooler actually would increase the workload to the compressor, as heat rises and principles of Boyle's Law. This heat, ie hotter air, then would be recirculated to the bottom of the unit and increase the temperature of the bulk of the unit thus causing the compressor to see higher temperatures and increase its operational time to cool (of course all of this depends on the dielectric used to create the thermocouple driving the compressor, the humidity within, location of thermocouple and cooling plate, and the surrounding environmental variables). As can be seen, there is more to this in operation than just the basic theories being applied. The tower is not a radiator, but in reality it is an adsorber that is taking on heat, rather than dispersing, as is the case of a radiator. The job of the compressor is to remove heat, and not to produce cold as is implied by some people (kind of like the theory behind creating a vacuum, which is not really to vacate or suck but to create a differential pressure that aids movement from a high to a low in an effort to equalize pressure, sorry for the tangent). So all of this being equal, by moving the warm air to the bottom you are possibly causing more work and load on the system due to the increased presentation of heat (and yes the sweating is a sign of heat transfer, but not the cold escaping but instead heat being taken on and some atmosphere condensing due to the rapid cooling). I use a tower cooler and like it, but to cool the air through exchange and create more uniform temps. Does it cause more load or not, I am not in the mood nor properly equipped to measure the exact effects, but agree with others that the effects of the extra inner insulation are negligible, otherwise they would make the tower out of something less conductive than metal and we would seal the system and circulate Helium instead of atmosphere to be a more efficient system. The figures in this case are miniscule in the grand scheme of things. I digress and am stepping off of my soapbox to have another beer.

[KillianBoy]

GRR ARRGH, make the pain in brain stop, no more science talk, need more beer.
Seriously, I wholly agree with squeakr, I always felt that sweating tower bad, dry tower good. If you see a freezer or refrigerator sweating do you think it’s working properly or do you worry that something’s wrong? If I were to make a tower I’d insulate both in flow and ex flow, so you don’t introduce warm air into the system. A properly designed tower cooler shouldn’t added heat to the system and should keep the entire interior temperature of unit consistent, then thermostat can be set at a warmer temperature and logically this should shorten on and off times but do it more often. If the tower cooler introduces warm air to the system on a constant basis, this would cause the compressor to work harder and maybe cycle more.
I myself are one of the few that fully insulate my beer tower, it's worked well and right now I don't plan on adding a tower cooler, when I do make my own at least I have a multitude of ideas and a plan set.

KB

[mjn]

Hello mjn,
"is it significant?" I think so. But is it drastic no, just another improvement. Does it lower run time, yes if the laws of thermodynamics are correct. The tower sweating is sure evidence that heat is exchanging at that point. If you're trying to keep a steady state in temp. and the cold is escaping then the compressor must do more work to overcome the temp. loss. But you are correct the gain with tower insulation in the short term may be so small that it seems unnoticable in compressor run time with out precise measurement so as to appear negotiable. But in the long term even if you only save one second of compressor run time per cycle it adds up, saving both energy cost and compressor life. How did the tower cooling work out for you, big change in 1st. pours?

Every little but helps. I didn't hesitate to upgrade the insulation, it could only help.

I am using my skinny little 8.5oz pilsner glass today and I am getting 1/4 of head. First pour of the day was about an inch of foam. Really just the beer in the faucet is getting warmed up. Taking the temp in the airspace of the tower results in about 35-37 degrees. Beer pours about 35(first beer), second beer(all beer from keg) goes 32-33. 13lbs. (Miller lite). I am proud to say the kegerator is dialed in. The mcgyver in me wants to do more, but its really as close to perfect as I could hope.

The only problem I have(which really isn't a problem) is the big server fans I used to make my towercooler/air circulator combo are a bit loud, and are audible outside of the kegerator.

[pvs6]

I am using my skinny little 8.5oz pilsner glass today and I am getting 1/4 of head. First pour of the day was about an inch of foam.

The only problem I have is the big server fans I used to make my towercooler/air circulator combo are a bit loud, and are audible outside of the kegerator.

Your pour sound excellent. I still have that pesky first pour of the day foaming more than I'd like, about a 1nch of head in a 6" tall glass. Though to some people that would be perfect. After that one they always pour to my taste even after a 3 hour break in pouring.

I first tried a 12 vdc squirrel cage blower fan I had on hand for my tower but it was way too noisy even when I cut it down to 6 volts. I've settled with (2) 1 1/2" computer fans and one 3.5" one. One blows air up the 1" tube from the bottom of unit and the other sucks air out of the tower base. The 3 1/2" blows the air around on top of the keg inside the unit. They can't be heard at all until the door is open and then you have to strain to heard if they're on. But of course they are, 24/7. How big of a server fan? But you said fans. You have two? How are they config-ed?

[mjn]

I did the standard computer fan in a project box, but then added a second fan pointing upwards attached to the outside of the project box, for an all-in-one dual fan unit.