BM-23 Stock Tower Cooler Questions

[whiplash willy]

Thanks Dennis. Here is a breakdown of my equiptment from Coupler to Faucet:

Coupler:
-Stainless Micromatic
-Used
-Completely disassembled and soaked/brush scrubbed in PBW and Sanitized in Starsan. Replaced all rubber seals with new ones. Replaced check ball with new Micromatic pieces

Gas Line
-New Micromatic Gasline
-New Stainless Tailpiece
-New silicone fitting between coupler and tailpiece

Beer Line
-New Micromatic Beer Line
-New Stainless Tailpiece and washer
-Line, Tailpiece, and Washer was sanitized in StarSan before use

Shank
-New Micromatic ALL STAINLESS Shank (Had problems in past with chrome plated one, so this time around I made sure I used a new Stainless one)
-Soaked in StarSAN before use

Faucet
-Used Perlick 525
-Fully disassembled and soaked/scrubbed with PBW. Then Sanitized with Starsan
-Used all new gaskets (Sanitized before use)

Basically, everything that touches the beer is Micromatic brand. Any metal parts are all stainless. Everything is new, or if used was fully disassembled and rebuilt with new gaskets/seals.

With how everything started, I wouldn't think I would have bacteria issues 1.5 weeks in, but I guess with the amount of beer that sits between the shank and perlick faucet, which is warm due to my tower cooler issues, I guess that could explain a bacteria problem. (However people seem to not have problems going 2 weeks or between kegs in some cases)

I haven't checked the temp or PSI for awhile because the 2nd pour had been good, so I will check them again and report back. Last time I checked it was 38*F and about 11PSI (V/V is 2.4).

My biggest worry is that if it is bacteria, that it has spread to the Keg. I will run some clean-flo through it tonight with the pressurized cleaning bottle, and hopefully have time to remove and clean the couple and faucet (After the kids are put to bed)

It will be pretty discouraging to have a bad 1/4 barrel after the first week and a half of use....

[DCullender]

Sorry WW, but I got lost in all of this discussion. Please restate your pressure and beer temperature.
As far as the metallic/hoppy/sour taste: Are you using chromed brass faucet and coupler or stainless steel? After the chrome has worn off, the exposed brass will impart a "metallic taste". "hoppy/sour taste", did your keg sit warm for any length of time? If it warmed to around 50 or more, it may have begun 2d fermentation and/or gone bad.

Just checked the "Draught Beer Quality Manual", published by the Brewers Association.
Sour/Vinegar taste caused by Aerobic Bacteria. Leading cause is dirty faucets.
Sour/Sour Milk taste caused by Anaerobic Bacteria (Lactobacillus) Leading cause dirty beer lines, faucets, couplers. This may require replacement of beer lines.

Dennis

[whiplash willy]

I am using a dishwasher, but this has never caused an issue in the past, and the 2nd pour is always perfect. These last few days, I have just been poring the 1st 1/2, which is mostly foam, and setting it aside, then drinking my 2nd perfect pour.

I just purchased a Dayton Blower and will set that up this weekend to ensure my tower is properly cooled. Maybe the stock tower cooler just isn't up to the task of cooling my perlick properly.

So starting yesterday, a new issue has come around. These last several days the beer has been tasting as it should, however yesterday, it had a very strong "Off-Taste" It is a strong metallic/hoppy/sour taste. I am not sure if this off taste is due to contamination or possibly over carbonation, but it came on fast.

I tapped the keg on 11/26, and I thought it wouldn't need cleaning yet (Was planning on every 2 weeks). I am going to try and clean the system tonight if I can, or tomorrow at the latest, however I am a little worried that if it is a contamination issue, it will spread and ruin the keg. If it is a contamination issue, how likely is it to spread to the keg? Maybe a weekly cleaning is needed.

I have the Micromatic Pressurized cleaning bottle, so I will try that first, then if that doesn't help, I will remove the faucet and tap and Clean/Sanitize those.

Also, on a side note, I used my Perlick 525 with my last kegerator (Converted Sanyo) which had a PC fan to circulate air, and a Dayton blower to cool the tower, and never had any foam issues, even during the summer when it was 90*F in the Garage. The way KB describes the 525, I can understand why it is more likely to cause foam in a warm environment, over a standard faucet. Hopefully my Dayton 1TDN2 blower will keep it cool enough.

[PointPleasantNJBeerguy]

Could be your glassware too causing the foam issue.Are you using dishwasher to clean your glasses?

[djc]

I have 525's in the garage and can pour a 1" head on the first beer all summer long. The difference with me is that all subsequent beers are without foam unless I force it with a direct down pour either to start or finish. I still think he isn't getting cool at the shanks. Velocity does matter because the ambient air is robbing the cold out of the faucets. Warming up is a rate of heat transfer. The more cold you bring, the less can get taken away.

[KillianBoy]

djc,
I guess I should have narrowed glycol statement, to the fact since the kegerator sits in a extreme warm environment that might be the only option. Forward sealing faucets have so much exposed surface of beer, no matter how good an air cooling system is, it would be hard to keep that much beer from getting warm in such an environment.
Most 525 owners keep their units in a controlled environment (bars, restaurants or air conditioned homes), few keep them in in environments of fairly high temperature like garages.
I don't think velocity of air flow would make any difference, cold is cold, it looks to be keeping shank at 48 degrees (on outside), but the tip near lever must be much warmer and causing the problem, if the ambient of garage is 85+, I don't think even a glycol system would help.
KB

[djc]

KB, not to offend or anything, but I think you've lost your mind. You are suggesting that with a BM23 the only way he can get foam free pours is with a glycol system?????? The BM23 is top shelf, a unit many here would like to have and a unit fully capable of great pours. His issue sounds a lot more like a bad blower not cooling the shanks properly. By his own admission in the very first thread it doesn't blow very hard.

[KillianBoy]

whiplash willy,
I don't want to disparage ThermoWorks or your method of taking temperature, but as in the "Read before Posting", it is always best to double check the thermometer. No harm in sticking it in a glass of crushed ice and water and see, if at 32.0, then fine if .X off then you know.
At 2.4 @38 degrees, yeah 11 PSI should be fine, @ 36.5 it should be 10 PSI, but by changing thermostat you don't know what the temperature will be, right? The target temperature really isn't 38, your target temperature is what you want to drink beer at, some will say 36.5 degrees is perfect, other want 39-42 degrees. Kegerators needs time for the temperature to stabilize, when you change the thermostat, you need to wait 24-48 hours for temperature to level off. Adjusting thermostat just makes compressor run a few minutes more every cycle, it doesn't make cooling coils colder, it doesn't make air colder, it just applies the same cold for a longer time every cycle.
Please read my thread, main point is that you need to be patient, don't expect changes to work in 12 hours, sometimes you need 24-48 hours.
Forward sealing faucets may look pretty and not stick but a massive amount of beers sits idle in a semi-warm environment, look at the lever (thing the tap handle sits on), just between that and spout (where beers comes out of) is where beer stops, from there to the lock ring is un-chilled and not insulated, this beer will warm over time (30 minutes or several hours no difference), this will cause foam, beer poured on foam will cause more foam, 70%+ on 1st glass, it can't be helped, unless you go to glycol cooling. Try and pour off a little prior to first glass in a separate cup and see. Remember foamy beer is still beer, just pour in glass after foam settles.
KB

[whiplash willy]

I called the brewery and the v/v is 2.4. So according to the carb chart for 38*F I should be using 10.3 PSI?

Last night, I measured the temp of the beer (2nd pull) as 36.5*F. I moved the thermostat down to 6.5, hoping that will get me somewhere around 38*F. I had moved the PSI to 13, which now I think will be too high.

Last night my first pull was still 50%+ foam, whether it sat for hours, or just 30 min. The 2nd immediate pull was perfect. My beer line isn't kinked, and I coiled it on the keg. The ambient temp of where my kegerator is sitting is between 50-60*F. The tower and shank feel cold to the touch, but not that cold, and there is no condensation. I used my thermapen probe on the tower shank, and it read about 48*F.

I have got to wounder if my problem is a warm faucet, with the first pull always being foamy, and the immediate 2nd pull always being perfect.

DOA Keg1.jpg
DOA Keg 2.jpg

Also, I am using a calibrated ThermoWorks Thermapen, so I know my temps are accurate.

[url=http://www.thermoworks.com/products/thermapen]ThermoWorks - Splash-Proof Thermapen

[KillianBoy]

whiplash willy,
Without v/v of the beer you are just throwing darts in dark room as to setting the PSI, READ my newbie thread regarding v/v, without the RIGHT v/v, you are just guessing at the PSI which will lead to 1st pour foam nearly all the time. ALL my PSI settings are based upon the 2.5 v/v, if it is right, confirm who you heard it from at brewery, then I can tell you if 13,14 or 15 is right.
I don't think it is the tower cooler itself, might be either insulation in tower or ambient temperature, right now balance the beer, then worry about adding anything Also forward sealing faucets (like the one you have) tend to foam more on 1st pour IF ambient temperature is pretty high (more faucet is exposed to ambient).
OK, use a digital calibrated thermometer, if you don't have a confirmed v/v from brewery, get one, you could try wrapping a towel around tower and see if that helps.
First pour foam, then second perfect either warm faucet or imbalance, if ambient 80+, no matter what you do since the forward sealing faucet has more exposed surface ANY tower cooler will have problems keeping beer in faucet at 38 degrees (except glycol cooling). Imbalance (PSI too low) will always cause foam (over time) because the CO2 will breakout and cause gaps, which will cause foam.
If your kegerator is sitting in 75-85 degree ambient, you may have to live with 1st pour foam, balance on not. Faucets are meant to be in a cool environment or cooled by glycol, especially the forward sealing ones.
KB

[whiplash willy]

whiplash willy,
My read on 40 degree, 2.5 v/v beer should be 12.3 PSI, my setting would be 13+, so Hopworks DOA is confirmed at 2.5 v/v? If so can you post on the carbonation thread.
If you are NOT getting a spurt of white, then clear beer something is wrong, unsure why you don't have the initial spurt, but if after beer flow turns back and forth, check the beer line, make sure it is coiled neatly on keg and not anywhere near airflow from the evaporator, try and pull away from flow or insulate line that is.
I re-read your thread, did you replace gasket, how do you have unit as a stand-alone or built-in or modified in any way, what is the ambient temperature where unit is.
If you are getting 1 good pour, then either there is a temperature problem or imbalance. Your gear seems fine, both keg and coupler/faucet.
KB

So last night, I confirmed the 2nd pour was 38*F (Kegerator Thermostat at 7). The PSI was set at 12. The first pour was about 75% foam, and the 2nd one was perfect.

I will check my beer line for kinks and coil it on the keg. I haven't replaced the door gasket on the BM23. It is standalone, and completely stock. It is sitting in my garage, which is about 50*F. Also, I don't know if it matters, but the tower is the original tower from 1987, which is 2.5" instead of the the new 3" standard diameter now.

As it stands, even if I let it sit for just 30 min, the first pour is 50%+ foam, then the 2nd is perfect. My guess that I either need more CO2 PSI, or better tower cooling. I turned the PSI up to 13, and will see how that effects things. If I can't fix this by increasing the CO2 PSI, I am thinking about getting a separate tower cooler blower, since it seems the built in tower cooler doesn't work well.

If 13psi doesn't work, should I try 14, or is that too high?

[whiplash willy]

can balance at 40F but why is this unit not getting colder?a BM23 should be able to get down to low 20s if cranked all the way.

The Kegerator is pretty old, from 1987..., I am thinking as long as it can hold the beer at the temp I need, and the compressor is cycling normally, I will be fine. Also, with the thermostat at 7, the beer is 38*F exactly (2nd pour ; Measured with a Thermapen)

[KillianBoy]

whiplash willy,
My read on 40 degree, 2.5 v/v beer should be 12.3 PSI, my setting would be 13+, so Hopworks DOA is confirmed at 2.5 v/v? If so can you post on the carbonation thread.
If you are NOT getting a spurt of white, then clear beer something is wrong, unsure why you don't have the initial spurt, but if after beer flow turns back and forth, check the beer line, make sure it is coiled neatly on keg and not anywhere near airflow from the evaporator, try and pull away from flow or insulate line that is.
I re-read your thread, did you replace gasket, how do you have unit as a stand-alone or built-in or modified in any way, what is the ambient temperature where unit is.
If you are getting 1 good pour, then either there is a temperature problem or imbalance. Your gear seems fine, both keg and coupler/faucet.
KB

[PointPleasantNJBeerguy]

can balance at 40F but why is this unit not getting colder?a BM23 should be able to get down to low 20s if cranked all the way.

[whiplash willy]

Thanks guys, I will let you know how it goes with the BM23 set to 7.

Draft Temp PSI Chart.jpg

If I look at the C02 Chart from the Draft Beer Quality Manual (Above) it shows the PSI for 38*F at 11.3 (For 2.5 Vol CO2). I am at about 500ft above sea level. From what I can tell the PSI is currently set at about 11, so I will try and up it and see how it goes.

KillianBoy, now that I read your post, It seems like I may have CO2 Gaps, as my first pour, I noticed amber color beer coming out initially, then a spout of foam, then amber color again.