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BM-23 Stock Tower Cooler Questions

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  • #16
    KillianBoy,

    Can you tell me where I can find adhesive type foam, or what it is called?

    The contamination issue I had was with my old Sanyo Mini Fridge Converted Kegerator, and a brewery filled Corney. It was my 2nd keg and at the time I hadn't had much experience with the whole kegerator thing. I may have dumped it prematurely, assuming the whole thing was bad.

    I think the problem was contamination in my old Chrome Plated Brass Shank. After I had given up and dumped the Keg, I removed my faucet and noticed the opening shank had some nastiness on it (The Chrome had worn of). With the BM-23 I will be sticking to commercial kegs. I bought a new stainless shank to hopefully resolve my last contamination issue. I have used the Commercial Coupler a few years ago, and I don't know how well it was cleaned last time, so to be safe, I replaced all 4 seals, and the check ball to be safe.

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    • #17
      That condensation is normal with a bm23 tower.Your insulation looks fine.A bm23 tower in the summer will be dripping sweat since they blow that much cold air into tower.
      What I got:
      Beverage Air #BM23
      with a "Sexy" Double Faucet Tower and Celli Eurpean Faucets
      -MM Premium Double Guage Primary Regulator
      -MM Premium 2 Product Secondary Regulator
      -MM S/S Keg Couplers
      YouTube video of the goods

      Comment


      • #18
        whiplash willy,
        Most DIY stores will have it , it is called foam insulation tape, one side is adhesive, the other foam. Most times you would put it over pipes that you want to prevent condensation. I put mine on the inside to help insulate the inside, as PointPleasantNJBeerguy says you can't get away from condensation on the outside. You could just get some adhesive (I like the spray best) and just tack down the insulation you have to the inside of the tower.
        Don't think it was contamination, it is just the beer contacting warm parts. I have always had commercial kegs and always had the problem of gunk getting built up in faucet and shank. The solution, clean more often, some clean every 2 weeks, others once a month, the longer you wait, the bigger the gunk problem. There are 2 holes in the faucet, both need to be cleaned, these holes allow air into faucet when pouring beer, otherwise the flow would look like water coming out of garden hose bib instead of an even flow.
        Having stainless may help a little but cleaning more often is the ultimate solution.
        Replacing all the seals, IMHO, is unnecessary, I've used a old and abused DT (Haier) coupler for years with no problems (I only replaced the keg seal which only contacts the gas), if you think you have problems, just get a new coupler. Next time you have it off the keg look through coupler from bottom, what you see through long tube (probe) is what touches the beer If you have check ball installed you will see that, when you clean coupler you really only have to run a brush right through probe to clean. I like to take the coupler apart, clean the chamber where gas is added to the keg and DRY, then put the probe and pump lubricant on all the seals and your good, I never liked to soak the whole coupler. If your are worried about contamination, I think soaking the whole coupler is the worst thing, the best thing to prevent any off taste, is to clean and dry your gear.
        KB
        Last edited by KillianBoy; 11-14-2014, 02:53 PM.

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        • #19
          Well, I tapped a Pony Keg of Hopworks DOA over the weekend. At Temp setting 6, my beer (2nd pull) is at 40*F in a room temp glass. I have my Co2 PSI at 11.

          My 1st pour is always 50% foam, however the 2nd is perfect, with about 3/4" of head. Carbonation looks good and the beer tastes like it should. I turned the temp to 7, and am aiming for 38*F for the 2nd pull.

          I am a little dissapointed though about the foam on the 1st pull. My old Sanyo kegerator, which had tower cooling from a commercial blower and a PC fan to circulate air throughout, had no tower cooling issues, and the 1st pull never had foam issues. It was kind of a ghetto setup, which is part of why I sold it for the Beverage Air. I didn't want to have to Mod my kegerator to make it work right.

          My best guess is the BM23's built in Tower Cooler, just doesn't work well enough to cool the tower properly. I know it is hooked into the Evap housing properly now, however, you can barley feel it blow any cold air. I am not sure if that is by design, or something isn't working. Is the BM23 Tower Cooler just not that effective?

          I see that PointPleasantNJBeerguy's BM23 has some kind of fitting on the opening of the tower that the cooler hose connects to, and the beer line goes into. Is that custom, or part of the "Sexy Double Faucet Tower"?

          Capture.jpg

          Maybe getting the beer down to 38* will help with the first pour. Any tips would be appreciated!
          Last edited by whiplash willy; 11-18-2014, 10:24 AM.

          Comment


          • #20
            My unit has a different tower on it thats why it has that fitting with the hose connected to it.

            Looking back at your pics I notice you have a woodgrain finish bm23 which means that unit is ATLEAST 15 years old and by the looks of the ID plate maybe 20+ years. BM23 usually runs within proper temp range at 5-6. Try pushing to up to 7-8 like you said and try again in 24hrs to see if it came down in temp.If not unit might be low on charge.
            What I got:
            Beverage Air #BM23
            with a "Sexy" Double Faucet Tower and Celli Eurpean Faucets
            -MM Premium Double Guage Primary Regulator
            -MM Premium 2 Product Secondary Regulator
            -MM S/S Keg Couplers
            YouTube video of the goods

            Comment


            • #21
              whiplash willy,
              No matter if tower blower is working properly, if your PSI is too low (in relation to v/v), the 1st pour (after an extended time) will always be foamy. The imbalance will cause breakout which will cause CO2 gaps which cause foam on first pour. Until you get the keg balanced to v/v you won't know if that is the cause, you could try flashlight test if you can't get v/v but best way to to balance properly.
              You could try and insulate tower fully, insulate blower hose then return hose the put both in tower, this should guarantee the coldest it can get and not worry about the tower cooling system.
              So try at 7 for 24-48 hours, I'd set the PSI at 12-13 (depending on your elevation) and see.
              KB

              Comment


              • #22
                Thanks guys, I will let you know how it goes with the BM23 set to 7.

                Draft Temp PSI Chart.jpg

                If I look at the C02 Chart from the Draft Beer Quality Manual (Above) it shows the PSI for 38*F at 11.3 (For 2.5 Vol CO2). I am at about 500ft above sea level. From what I can tell the PSI is currently set at about 11, so I will try and up it and see how it goes.

                KillianBoy, now that I read your post, It seems like I may have CO2 Gaps, as my first pour, I noticed amber color beer coming out initially, then a spout of foam, then amber color again.

                Comment


                • #23
                  can balance at 40F but why is this unit not getting colder?a BM23 should be able to get down to low 20s if cranked all the way.
                  What I got:
                  Beverage Air #BM23
                  with a "Sexy" Double Faucet Tower and Celli Eurpean Faucets
                  -MM Premium Double Guage Primary Regulator
                  -MM Premium 2 Product Secondary Regulator
                  -MM S/S Keg Couplers
                  YouTube video of the goods

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    whiplash willy,
                    My read on 40 degree, 2.5 v/v beer should be 12.3 PSI, my setting would be 13+, so Hopworks DOA is confirmed at 2.5 v/v? If so can you post on the carbonation thread.
                    If you are NOT getting a spurt of white, then clear beer something is wrong, unsure why you don't have the initial spurt, but if after beer flow turns back and forth, check the beer line, make sure it is coiled neatly on keg and not anywhere near airflow from the evaporator, try and pull away from flow or insulate line that is.
                    I re-read your thread, did you replace gasket, how do you have unit as a stand-alone or built-in or modified in any way, what is the ambient temperature where unit is.
                    If you are getting 1 good pour, then either there is a temperature problem or imbalance. Your gear seems fine, both keg and coupler/faucet.
                    KB
                    Last edited by KillianBoy; 11-18-2014, 04:45 PM.

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Originally posted by PointPleasantNJBeerguy View Post
                      can balance at 40F but why is this unit not getting colder?a BM23 should be able to get down to low 20s if cranked all the way.
                      The Kegerator is pretty old, from 1987..., I am thinking as long as it can hold the beer at the temp I need, and the compressor is cycling normally, I will be fine. Also, with the thermostat at 7, the beer is 38*F exactly (2nd pour ; Measured with a Thermapen)

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Originally posted by KillianBoy View Post
                        whiplash willy,
                        My read on 40 degree, 2.5 v/v beer should be 12.3 PSI, my setting would be 13+, so Hopworks DOA is confirmed at 2.5 v/v? If so can you post on the carbonation thread.
                        If you are NOT getting a spurt of white, then clear beer something is wrong, unsure why you don't have the initial spurt, but if after beer flow turns back and forth, check the beer line, make sure it is coiled neatly on keg and not anywhere near airflow from the evaporator, try and pull away from flow or insulate line that is.
                        I re-read your thread, did you replace gasket, how do you have unit as a stand-alone or built-in or modified in any way, what is the ambient temperature where unit is.
                        If you are getting 1 good pour, then either there is a temperature problem or imbalance. Your gear seems fine, both keg and coupler/faucet.
                        KB
                        So last night, I confirmed the 2nd pour was 38*F (Kegerator Thermostat at 7). The PSI was set at 12. The first pour was about 75% foam, and the 2nd one was perfect.

                        I will check my beer line for kinks and coil it on the keg. I haven't replaced the door gasket on the BM23. It is standalone, and completely stock. It is sitting in my garage, which is about 50*F. Also, I don't know if it matters, but the tower is the original tower from 1987, which is 2.5" instead of the the new 3" standard diameter now.

                        As it stands, even if I let it sit for just 30 min, the first pour is 50%+ foam, then the 2nd is perfect. My guess that I either need more CO2 PSI, or better tower cooling. I turned the PSI up to 13, and will see how that effects things. If I can't fix this by increasing the CO2 PSI, I am thinking about getting a separate tower cooler blower, since it seems the built in tower cooler doesn't work well.

                        If 13psi doesn't work, should I try 14, or is that too high?
                        Last edited by whiplash willy; 11-19-2014, 09:40 AM.

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          whiplash willy,
                          Without v/v of the beer you are just throwing darts in dark room as to setting the PSI, READ my newbie thread regarding v/v, without the RIGHT v/v, you are just guessing at the PSI which will lead to 1st pour foam nearly all the time. ALL my PSI settings are based upon the 2.5 v/v, if it is right, confirm who you heard it from at brewery, then I can tell you if 13,14 or 15 is right.
                          I don't think it is the tower cooler itself, might be either insulation in tower or ambient temperature, right now balance the beer, then worry about adding anything Also forward sealing faucets (like the one you have) tend to foam more on 1st pour IF ambient temperature is pretty high (more faucet is exposed to ambient).
                          OK, use a digital calibrated thermometer, if you don't have a confirmed v/v from brewery, get one, you could try wrapping a towel around tower and see if that helps.
                          First pour foam, then second perfect either warm faucet or imbalance, if ambient 80+, no matter what you do since the forward sealing faucet has more exposed surface ANY tower cooler will have problems keeping beer in faucet at 38 degrees (except glycol cooling). Imbalance (PSI too low) will always cause foam (over time) because the CO2 will breakout and cause gaps, which will cause foam.
                          If your kegerator is sitting in 75-85 degree ambient, you may have to live with 1st pour foam, balance on not. Faucets are meant to be in a cool environment or cooled by glycol, especially the forward sealing ones.
                          KB
                          Last edited by KillianBoy; 11-19-2014, 02:57 PM.

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            I called the brewery and the v/v is 2.4. So according to the carb chart for 38*F I should be using 10.3 PSI?

                            Last night, I measured the temp of the beer (2nd pull) as 36.5*F. I moved the thermostat down to 6.5, hoping that will get me somewhere around 38*F. I had moved the PSI to 13, which now I think will be too high.

                            Last night my first pull was still 50%+ foam, whether it sat for hours, or just 30 min. The 2nd immediate pull was perfect. My beer line isn't kinked, and I coiled it on the keg. The ambient temp of where my kegerator is sitting is between 50-60*F. The tower and shank feel cold to the touch, but not that cold, and there is no condensation. I used my thermapen probe on the tower shank, and it read about 48*F.

                            I have got to wounder if my problem is a warm faucet, with the first pull always being foamy, and the immediate 2nd pull always being perfect.

                            DOA Keg1.jpg
                            DOA Keg 2.jpg

                            Also, I am using a calibrated ThermoWorks Thermapen, so I know my temps are accurate.

                            [url=http://www.thermoworks.com/products/thermapen]ThermoWorks - Splash-Proof Thermapen
                            Last edited by whiplash willy; 11-20-2014, 02:16 PM.

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              whiplash willy,
                              I don't want to disparage ThermoWorks or your method of taking temperature, but as in the "Read before Posting", it is always best to double check the thermometer. No harm in sticking it in a glass of crushed ice and water and see, if at 32.0, then fine if .X off then you know.
                              At 2.4 @38 degrees, yeah 11 PSI should be fine, @ 36.5 it should be 10 PSI, but by changing thermostat you don't know what the temperature will be, right? The target temperature really isn't 38, your target temperature is what you want to drink beer at, some will say 36.5 degrees is perfect, other want 39-42 degrees. Kegerators needs time for the temperature to stabilize, when you change the thermostat, you need to wait 24-48 hours for temperature to level off. Adjusting thermostat just makes compressor run a few minutes more every cycle, it doesn't make cooling coils colder, it doesn't make air colder, it just applies the same cold for a longer time every cycle.
                              Please read my thread, main point is that you need to be patient, don't expect changes to work in 12 hours, sometimes you need 24-48 hours.
                              Forward sealing faucets may look pretty and not stick but a massive amount of beers sits idle in a semi-warm environment, look at the lever (thing the tap handle sits on), just between that and spout (where beers comes out of) is where beer stops, from there to the lock ring is un-chilled and not insulated, this beer will warm over time (30 minutes or several hours no difference), this will cause foam, beer poured on foam will cause more foam, 70%+ on 1st glass, it can't be helped, unless you go to glycol cooling. Try and pour off a little prior to first glass in a separate cup and see. Remember foamy beer is still beer, just pour in glass after foam settles.
                              KB

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                KB, not to offend or anything, but I think you've lost your mind. You are suggesting that with a BM23 the only way he can get foam free pours is with a glycol system?????? The BM23 is top shelf, a unit many here would like to have and a unit fully capable of great pours. His issue sounds a lot more like a bad blower not cooling the shanks properly. By his own admission in the very first thread it doesn't blow very hard.
                                Last edited by djc; 11-20-2014, 08:34 PM.
                                What I have: Haier two tap, 525 faucets, tower cooler, 10' lines

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