Need suggestions/criticism/advice please

[transamman]

Well I'm hoping some of you seasoned experts might be able to critique my ideas and/or make a few suggestions for the setup we're planning for the bar we're opening.

So here goes:

It's a 3 story building with the third floor being just a nice size, built-up rooftop patio.
The only place we could feasably put the walk-in cooler is on the second floor.
Directly below the cooler on the first floor we're planning on running 14 taps (specifics down below).
Then we're planning on running 6 taps up to the rooftop (specifics down below).
We won't have any draft beer on the second floor.

We plan on running a 14beer/4glycol (all 3/8") trunk line downstairs (20-25') and a 6/2 trunk line upstairs (~40' long). We're hoping to be able to use just one power pack with two 1/3HP pumps ( this one )

- Do you think that power pack will be enough to run the 4 glycol lines 25' downstairs AND the 2 lines 40' upstairs?



Here are the beers we're planning on serving(preliminary list):
Downstairs: Shiner, XX, Victoria, Guiness, Sam Adams, Sam Adams Seasonal, Blue Moon, Crispin, Boulevard Wheat, Fat Tire, Shock Top, Fireman's 4, Sierra Nevada, & Sierra Seasonal or similar
Rooftop: Bud Light, Miller Light, Coors Light, Shiner, Blue Moon, XX

- Given that list, would you all recommend we use mixed gas?
- If so, what % of each gas would you run on which beers?
- Is there any beer that you wouldn't want to use with mixed gas?



We debated heavily on offering Coors, Bud and Miller Light on tap downstairs but after some calculations we figured we'd make slightly more money by going with bottles instead, there would never be the question: "You want draft or bottle?", and it gave us 3 more taps to use on other beer.

- Do you think it will hurt sales by not having those 3 on tap?
- Given the option, would you put those on tap in your establishment or stick with just bottles?



Thanks in advance for any and all suggestions/advice!!!

[Scott Zuhse]

The power pack will be sufficient.

Utilize 5/16" ID trunk line versus 3/8" ID.

A triple gas blender would be ideal.

Balance system to 22 PSI.

Will you have a keg station for each faucet (20)?

I would like to see your math as to how you came up with bottles being more profitable than draught.

[transamman]

The power pack will be sufficient.

Utilize 5/16" ID trunk line versus 3/8" ID.

A triple gas blender would be ideal.

Balance system to 22 PSI.

Will you have a keg station for each faucet (20)?

I would like to see your math as to how you came up with bottles being more profitable than draught.

thanks for your advice!!

Please forgive my ignorance, but why go with the smaller 5/16" trunk line? Because of longer distance/more waste when cleaning?

"Keg station"?? Do you mean something like "will any one keg supply both the upstairs and the downstairs?" If that's your question the answer would be no. We'll run up/down seperately. Upstairs kegs will be on the right side of the walk-in, downstairs on the left and back walls.


KEG
15.5 gallons in a keg * 128oz = 1984oz
poured into 16oz glasses you get 124 beers per keg
subtract 6-8 pints due to foam/imperfect pours/cleaning = 118
multiply that by the local average for domestic drafts --> $4.25 = $501.50
1/2 barrel keg of Coors/Bud/Miller Light is roughly $92
$501.50 minus $92 ====> $409.50

BOTTLES
so using the same amount of fluid ounces DRANK in the above example...118*16oz = 1888oz
divide by 12oz for a beer --> 157.3 beers. (round that down to 155 for broken bottles)
a 24 case of bottles is just under $20 so each bottle costs us $0.83
155 beers * $0.83 = $128.65
155 bottles sold at $3.50 = $542.50
$542.50 - $128.65 = $413.85

Only a slight difference, but theoretically bottles win when you compare by how much fluid is actually consumed/purchased.

[Scott Zuhse]

5/16" due to less waste when line cleaning and refilling line after tapping new keg. The least amount of beer between the keg and faucet in any system is ideal. System run length limits the ID size. In your design, 5/16" is applicable. Actually, 1/4" ID may work as well. This is where a competent installer comes into play as you need to know what you are doing when making these smaller connections.

A keg station comprises of the secondary regulator to pressurize one coupler that will be used to tap one keg. So if you will have a dedicated keg station for each faucet, you will have 20 stations.

A 16oz glass should not have 16oz served. Always present the draught with at least a 3/4" collar of foam. This is much more aesthetic and the foam collar actually protects the product. As well, your nose picks up the aroma of this collar - you taste what you smell. Since foam is approximately 25% beer, the 16oz glass will amount closer to 14 oz. of beer. Additionally, a national average for keg yield hovers around 93% due to line cleaning, refilling empty lines (more efficient with the 5/16") and operator error.

1984 @ 93% = 1845oz / 14oz. per glass = 132 glasses per 1/2 Bbl. @ 4.25 =$561 - $92 = $469

Or

using your 1888oz. / 14oz. = 135 glasses per 1/2 Bbl @ $4.25 = $573 - $92 = $481

Most certainly there are pros and cons with both draught and bottles. Myself, if I already have a draught system, why not optimize it and sell as much as I can. It is already there. Having an eight product tower versus the six will not increase the cost of your system much.

Approx. annual profit @ ave. $4.50 / 14oz. serving @ 15 - 1/2 Bbls per week @ 93% yield = $414,000

Approx. annual profit @ ave. $4.75 / 14oz. serving @ 15 - 1/2 Bbls per week @ 93% yield = $441,000

[yanmoyiie]

Well I'm hoping some of you seasoned experts might be able to critique my ideas and/or make a few suggestions for the setup we're planning for the bar we're opening.

So here goes:

It's a 3 story building with the third floor being just a nice size, built-up rooftop patio.
The only place we could feasably put the walk-in cooler is on the second floor.
Directly below the cooler on the first floor we're planning on running 14 taps (specifics down below).
Then we're planning on running 6 taps up to the rooftop (specifics down below).
We won't have any draft beer on the second floor.

We plan on running a 14beer/4glycol (all 3/8") trunk line downstairs (20-25') and a 6/2 trunk line upstairs (~40' long). We're hoping to be able to use just one power pack with two 1/3HP pumps ( this one )

- Do you think that power pack will be enough to run the 4 glycol lines 25' downstairs AND the 2 lines 40' upstairs?



Here are the beers we're planning on serving(preliminary list):
Downstairs: Shiner, XX, Victoria, Guiness, Sam Adams, Sam Adams Seasonal, Blue Moon, Crispin, Boulevard Wheat, Fat Tire, Shock Top, Fireman's 4, Sierra Nevada, & Sierra Seasonal or similar
Rooftop: Bud Light, Miller Light, Coors Light, Shiner, Blue Moon, XX

- Given that list, would you all recommend we use mixed gas?
- If so, what % of each gas would you run on which beers?
- Is there any beer that you wouldn't want to use with mixed gas?



We debated heavily on offering Coors, Bud and Miller Light on tap downstairs but after some calculations we figured we'd make slightly more money by going with bottles instead, there would never be the question: "You want draft or bottle?", and it gave us 3 more taps to use on other beer.

- Do you think it will hurt sales by not having those 3 on tap?
- Given the option, would you put those on tap in your establishment or stick with just bottles?



Thanks in advance for any and all suggestions/advice!!!

Downstairs: Shiner, XX, Victoria, Guiness, Sam Adams, Sam Adams Seasonal, Blue Moon, Crispin, Boulevard Wheat, Fat Tire, Shock Top, Fireman's 4, Sierra Nevada, & Sierra Seasonal or similar