Foamy beer

[Mike5150]

I know you guys have probably heard this question a hundred times, but I'd appreciate it alot if you help me through this. I've been reading a ton of different websites and forums, and trying several different things, but I still can't figure out what my problem is.

I bought a used tower kegerator on ebay (couldn't afford a new one). I have a half keg (1/4 barrel) of Miller lite. I have an external temp controler set to 35 degrees, but using a thermometer I'm reading about 37-38 degrees out of the tap.

the kegerator came with 6' of 3/16" plastic beer line (no shank, it connects directly to the faucet barb) There is 2' 6" of lift between to top of the keg and the center of the faucet. According to the balance calcs I used, this setup required 19.25 PSI of CO2 for a balanced system. I cut the hose down to 3' 6" which should give me 12 PSI for a balanced system. This didn't help my foaming problem. I'm at a loss as to what else I can try.

Something else I noticed is that while cleaning the lines (again) I left the CO2 line connected to the tap and it was bubbling in the water even though the shut off valve on the gauge was turned off. I wouldn't think that this should affect anything when the valve is open, but I thought I should mention it.

Thanks alot for any advice you can give me!
Mike

[ernestbud]

bad probe gasket

[Mike5150]

Just checked the tap. All seals look to be in good condition. Poured soapy water over the tap and there were no bubbles. Any other suggestions?

Thanks,
Mike

[Larry Tapper]

What make of coupler do you have? Some types did not have a gasket to seal between the probe and keg, and sometimes the probe works loose. Need to know the make of coupler.

[Mike5150]

Not sure on the brand. It's doesn't have any markings. It's a Haier brewmaster kegerator. The tap is a sanky with a light blue lever handle with a white cap at the end. It also looks like there is an OT or DT stamped in the side of the tap. Not sure if any of that helps.

Is it possible that the keg is bad? I have a 5 gallon keg of Amber Bock which I haven't touched yet. I can swap out the Miller and put in the Amber Bock to see if the problem continues.

Mike

[ernestbud]

if you have the regulator set at 19psi you are definetly over carbonating the keg reducing the line length only cuts down the restriction you should only have about 5' of 3/16 line on that thing and set the pressure to 12psi

[Mike5150]

Even 5 feet I think is too long. Unless the caluculations I was using were wrong.

5' of 3/16" line at 3.0 lbs (5*3.0= 15)
lift is 2.5 feet (2.5*.5=1.25)
15 + 1.25 = 16.25 psi

5' of 3/16" beer line would require 16.25 psi which I think is still high.
I cut my line down to 3.5' and set my regulator to 12 psi, but the problem is still occuring. Once the keg has been overcarbonated, how do I go about getting it back to normal? I tried turning off the gas and pulling the pressure relief valve a few times over the last 16 hours, but when I turned the gas back on it still foams like crazy.

As for the probe gasket that someone mentioned yesterday, the tap does have a probe gasket, but it looks like it's in fine condition as far as I can tell. No tears or rips that I can see.

Thanks alot for all the help. I am determined to keep at this until I figure it out, and I know I couldn't do it without you guys!
Mike

[ernestbud]

to de-carbonate the keg;
1.turn off gas
2.release gas from keg
3.shake keg back and forth
4.release gas again
5.repeat steps 3-4 several times
6.turn gas back on
problem should be solved if it was overcarbonization

[Mike5150]

lol I think that was the first time I shook up a beer on purpose for myself! Well, I de-carbonated the keg, and re-applied the gas. No luck. I decided to try the 5 gallon keg of Amber Bock I have lined up to use next, hoping that it's just a problem with the keg. No luck, I was getting mostly foam right from the first pour about 2 minutes after I hooked it up. You guys are the experts, but I'm thinking that something must be defective with my kegerator, and I'm ready to start swapping out parts. Where should I start, or is there something else I should try first?

Thanks!
Mike

[ernestbud]

ok are you absolutely sure your actual liquid temp is below 40 deg?
what is your pressure setting that you have on the keg now
I set up single keg boxes all of the time with 5' of 3/16 @12-14psi and they are all on bud products so I know this works 99% of all troble calls are temp and or pressure very few actual mechanical probs

[Mike5150]

The liquid temp when I got home was 32 degrees, that was using a thermometer in a gl*** of water. I upped the temp on the external temp controler a few degrees because I know it can cause the beer to go flat if it's too cold. at the moment the temp in the gl*** of water is reading 36 degrees. The regulator is a single gauge which for the old keg was set at 12 psi (I am positive of this, I looked at the gauge right before I swapped kegs) I just double checked the setting right now and it's reading 14 psi, so I'm going to shake the keg and bleed the air to see what happens. This is a used kegerator that I bought off of ebay (now I know why I got it so cheap) I'm wondering if the regulator is bad. Is there a way to test it?

Mike

[ernestbud]

have you completely dis-***embled the entire system and checked for any burrs or rough edges in the shank and the faucet? the flow rate should be 2oz's per second. also check to see that there are not any kinks or twists in the line the actual kegerator should be fine I would look more into the faucet and the shank and the sankey right now.your temps and pressures are correct now,[that is if you are getting a true reading]some sankeys have a screw on probe tip you need to make sure you have a tight fit there and it is not allowing air into the line. also I do not remember do you get foam all of the time or does it clear up after a pour or two?

[wineglow]

The faucet body has two vent holes that must be open that will sometimes cause foaming make sure these are both open.

[Mike5150]

I just looked over the whole beer line, the end that connects to the sanky is a ******* end and i can't take it apart...best I can tell it looks fine though. The end that connects to the faucet (there is no shank going down the tower) is also fine. I took it apart and didn't feel any burs or sharp edges. The flow rate sounds about right. There are no kinks in the beer line, and the twists are gradual and only because of the slack in the line. The sanky is a 1/4 turn with a lever to engage the probe. as for the probe itself, with it extended I didn't notice anything that screwed on, if it does then it seems tight, also looked over the gaskets again and there is nothing wrong with them. I could only find one vent hole in my faucet which is in the front of the faucet above the spout, but below the handle (hopefully that makes sense, I can take a pic and attach the file if it would help) and that looks clear. As for whether I get foam all the time, or only for the first pour or 2, that's an excellent question. I just poured 4 beers in a row to find out, and it only foamed the first 2 times The second 2 had the perfect amount of head. What would cause that?

Mike

[wineglow]

Examine the faucet closely and youll notice there are two vent holes: one is inside the throat and the other is directly under the shaft opening. Make sure both openings are obstruction free. I think the second vent hole is plugged solid, use a metal paper clip and you will find it.

[ernestbud]

sounds as if the tower is not getting colled properly and it tokk the first two beers to cool down the shank ***embly does your kegerator have a blower motor in it to cool down the tower

[Mike5150]

I just took the faucet apart again and examined it very thoroughly. There is only 1 vent hole (mabe the second was chromed over during production?). I found the one in the front under the shaft, but I'm not sure what you meant by inside the throat.

There is no blower inside the kegerator, it's just a metal plate at the back that frosts over. No fans or anything inside to move the air around. I just poured off a small amount of beer, and the temp of the beer coming out of the tap is about 45 degrees. The liquid temp inside the main part of the kegerator is 35 degrees using the same thermometer in a gl*** of water. The tower has a very thin piece of insulation wrapped on the inside, and there is no shank running up the tower, the beer line connects directly to the back of the faucet. What's the best way to fix this problem?

Thanks!
Mike

[ernestbud]

well you just solved it with the first beer pouring at 45 you have to pour out enough to cool the faucet and shank down to the right temp to completely solve the prob. you need to get some air circulating in the tower or just live with what you have.you need to mount some type of circulating fan to move air into the tower even just a small type of processor fan like in a computer will work on this just get some air to the tower

[DCullender]

Just read this thread. I agree completely with ernestbud. Your problem with this type of kegerator is that no cold air is circulated into the tower. This causes the beer inside the tower to warm up very quickly causing a quick burst of foam on the first 1 or two beers poured. This is a common problem on all of the lower end home type kegerators. My Sanyo model has the same problem.

[Scott Zuhse]

Calibrate that thermometer as well. Also, conduct a pressure leak test:

To leak test the entire system, leave all valves open with the keg couplers in on position. Be certain that no one is dispensing while testing. Turn the gas cylinder wheel off and observe the high pressure gauge (indicates pressure in cylinder). If the needle begins to drop, you have a leak somewhere in the system.

To isolate, turn all the valves off and raise the handles on the keg couplers turning beer off but leave them in the keg well. Turn the wheel back on pressurizing system and then again turn off noting the needle on the high side gauge. If it drops, your leak is right at the regulator since the shut off below it is in the off position.

If it does not drop, your leak is downstream. Open the regulator shut off and repeat turning wheel on and off. Continue this process until you isolate where the leak may be. Using leak detector soap or other detection medium.

Also, you should re-install five to six feet of 3/16". You do not adjust pressure to the equipment. You build the system to the keg PSIG which is based on carbonation spec and temperature. Since you have a warm tower issue, you would probably desire a slower flow rate to increase your success at dispensing. The longer 3/16" will accomplish this for you.

This is why we are so adamant about temperature. Beer has gas and to control this the temperature must be known to determine PSIG. Review this pouring technique as well:

Recommendation would be to allow this initial shot of foam to hit the gl***, then close faucet. Dump this small amount of waste out and start over with clear beer. You will be much more successful pouring the beer since it is physically impossible to pour clear beer on top of foam.

As to dropping the pressure to five pounds to overcome dispensing issues. No, unless the Dundee Honey Nut Brown Ale is already flat off of the packaging line. Find out what the specification of carbonation in volumes is and that will determine the PSIG for your dispensing system.

Or you can do the same thing that hundreds of bartenders perform at retail everyday - keep tipping the foam off of the gl*** as they dispense until they think they have a good gl*** of beer. Not! This bad habit results in substantial waste and flat beer since they knocked all the carbonation out of the beer while dispensing.

[Mike5150]

Ok, I finally got around to getting a small fan for my kegerator, and it didn't work. The cool air is still not making it up the tower. I don't know how to calibrate the thermometer, but I did try with another thermometer and got the same results. The gl*** of water I keep in the kegerator reads 36 degrees, the first gl*** I pour reads 44 degrees, and after pouring off 2 pint gl***es of mostly foam, the third gl*** reads at 37 degrees. I really can't afford a new kegerator, and It pains me to pour off so much good beer. Since the small fan inside the kegerator isn't working, what other options do I have to cool the tower?

On a side note, somehow I didn't shut the door to the kegerator the other night and the external temp controler that I use was reading 56 degrees for the temperature. I am guessing that the door was open for about 16 hours. will allowing the keg to warm up for that long spoil the beer?

Thanks so much!
Mike

[ernestbud]

if the beer reached 45-48 deg for an extended time it can start secondary fermentation if it was only the 16 i doubt it depending on how much liquid was in the keg as for the fan the air has to go into the tower to be effective the back of the faucet needs to be the coldest spot

[mctripj]

Originally Posted by Mike5150

Ok, I finally got around to getting a small fan for my kegerator, and it didn't work. The cool air is still not making it up the tower. I don't know how to calibrate the thermometer, but I did try with another thermometer and got the same results. The gl*** of water I keep in the kegerator reads 36 degrees, the first gl*** I pour reads 44 degrees, and after pouring off 2 pint gl***es of mostly foam, the third gl*** reads at 37 degrees. I really can't afford a new kegerator, and It pains me to pour off so much good beer. Since the small fan inside the kegerator isn't working, what other options do I have to cool the tower?

On a side note, somehow I didn't shut the door to the kegerator the other night and the external temp controler that I use was reading 56 degrees for the temperature. I am guessing that the door was open for about 16 hours. will allowing the keg to warm up for that long spoil the beer?

Thanks so much!
Mike

how big is the fan and how did you mount it? remember, you have to have a way for the air you are blowing to escape. i used a small