Remote System Balancing

[edramshaw]

Sorry to post this again if it has been addressed before. I can't seem to find any information elsewhere. I am replacing lines in what would be considered a remote system. It is actually a direct draw but all of the kegs cannot fit on the back wall so a couple of lines need to be about 6 feet to accommodate the space. The question is pertaining to how to balance such a system. The directions on your site say that a more complicated balancing formula is applied to system meeting my criteria. What is that formula? I don't have all the data required on hand (such as psi and beer temp)so I was wondering if I could get some tips to determine appropriate line lengths on sight once I have that info in front of me (a formula maybe). What I do know is that they are pouring 4 domestic yellow beers (Bud, Miller Lite, Michelob Light and Bud Light). I have a CO2 Volume chart so once I determine the temperature then I can figure out the pressure needed to maintain carbonation levels. Am I shooting for roughly 2.6 vol/co2 with these types of products? Once I do this I need to figure out the rest of the details such a line lengths, etc. Although I didn't check I would assume they are pushing with straight CO2, I will confirm this before actually moving forward here. So long story short, how do I proceed from here? What are the formulas that apply to my situation. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Cheers!

Ed

[Scott Zuhse]

Seems as if you have a walk in cooler with the shanks on the wall but the kegs are on another wall away from the shanks and you cannot use 3/16" exclusively with your run length.

At 38 F beer temp., use 14 PSIG CO2. Determine how long of lines are required to route from the back of the shank along the walls to the keg station. Let us know what this run length is and we can calculate from there. Length will determine if we should use barrier tubing for the trunk or if vinyl will suffice. Please advise.

Scott Zuhse, Instructor Micro Matic Dispense Institute

[edramshaw]

You are right in that the shanks are in the wall. Two of the kegs are close to directly below where the lines enter the cooler wall. I can probably reach them with a 3 foot line if I needed too. The other two kegs are on the other wall. The kegs are basically set up like this:
________
|x x x
ox
|
o
|

The shanks are the o's, the x's are the kegs.

So essentially I could reach 2 kegs with a minimum of 3 feet and the other two with an approximately 5-6 foot run. Any help would be appreciated.

Also are you suggesting 14 PSI because that it what is needed to maintain appropriate carbonation levels for those types of products? If so what is the appropriate CO2 Vol. level for say Budweiser. According to the chart I have, I would have 2.88 vol/co2 based on 14 psi at 38 degrees. I just want to make sure I can solve this problem on my own in the future. Thanks for the help. (Also I did purchase 3/16" ID tubing for the replacement lines.)

Ed

[Scott Zuhse]

If you are using a Zahm Nagel chart, the carbonation levels are based on perfect equilibrium. The PSIG recommended represents an additional two pounds "push" pressure. Try to use six feet on all of the products if they have the same carb level. Trim back four inches at a time if flow is too slow at 14 PSIG.

If line is too short after trimming, we may have to go to two different line sizes.

Scott Zuhse, Instructor Micro Matic Dispense Institute

[edramshaw]

Thanks for all the help! I have a couple more questions.

1. What is the appropriate vol/co2 in basic American light lagers (Bud, Miller, Coors Lite)? This information will help me address this problem in the future.

2. What would my options be with regard to using two different lines?

My situation is that I have a business doing basic line cleaning and have been asked to replace beer lines at a bar about an hour away. I want to make sure that I have everything with me when I go as leaving the tap system non-operational is not an option. I plan to take the Micromatic course in July to build my knowledge in this area but for now I need a little guidance.

If I understand your previous answers correctly, 6 feet of line on all products pushed with 14 PSI of CO2 at 38 degrees should work. Is this correct? As I mentioned I can go shorter on two lines but would need about 5 to 6 feet minimum for the other two. I would imagine that if I am shortening one line I would need to shorten them all to remain consistent. This severely limits how much I can trim off of all the lines. I assume this is where the two different line sizes come in. If so your answer to my earlier question will take care of this.

Thanks again for all your help!

[Scott Zuhse]

Which location are you taking the class? Carb levels for most domestic beers is around 2.5 vols except for Coors' products. They have 2.8 vols. and require two additional pounds of pressure.

If the six feet will comfortably reach, start with this at 14 PSIG (16 for Coors' products) @ 38 beer temp. If you are comfortable with the flow rate, leave the six feet intact. If you require a faster flow rate, simply trim back four inches at a time until satisfied.

You may need a combination of 3/16" and 1/4" if you need a longer run of six feet. If so, we can advise you later.

Scott Zuhse, Instructor Micro Matic Dispense Institute

[edramshaw]

Thanks for the advice Scott. I replaced all four lines with 6 feet of 3/16" vinyl tubing and all seems to be working fine. I'll find out for sure when I head up to clean them in a few weeks. I am hoping to take the course in PA. It all depends on if there is still room available when I can pay for the course. Again thanks for the help and I look forward to learning more this summer!

Ed