45' Remote Challenge

[Scott Zuhse]

Stopped by a Chili's recently to assist techs troubleshooting an issue with one line on a 45' glycol system with Flo jet pumps. They had already replaced just about everything including trunk line. One product, Miller Lite on line four, continues to cause issues. Two to almost three glasses will pour clear and then suddenly nothing but foam.

These guys replaced the trunk line, regulator for pressure to the keg, coupler, faucet, splicers between connections, bypassed the pump as well as replaced, placed other products on the line, switched pressure lines form one coupler to the next, confirmed power pack was operating correctly and the only item not replaced was the tower.

What is strange is as soon as the foam hits, the faucet is closed immediately and when opened shortly thereafter, it is clear as a bell. This system has worked in the past. Seems as soon as Ultra was replaced by Lite, problem began.

Any ideas?

[edramshaw]

Did the other products placed on the same line during troubleshooting act the same way?

[TAPMAN]

I have seen where the elbow or nipple that connects to the back of the shank might have a burr in it. Also, it could be the plunger washer,(on a new faucet, nah never).

[Scott Zuhse]

All products reacted the same when coupled on this line. Faucet was changed. Burr at shank would not allow the beer to dispense at all. This line allow for at least two glasses before foam hits.

[Draught Prophet]

Silly question, but why are there pumps on a 45' run?

When you by-passed the pumps, it still happened? How was the pour speed affected with no pumps?

One other thing that came to mind was does the pressure line go directly to the sec reg then line 4 or does it go into a bank of sec regs where line 4 is the last reg in a series?

[Beer Dr]

I would disconnect this line where it connects to the choker tube. Hook your line cleaning pump to the faucet coupling ring and try to flush it back into a bucket. Could be something hung up right where the the line becomes smaller causing restriction during full flow, but allowing the line to repack in the tower when the faucet closed. I have found several plastic pieces from the caps on the Labatts barrel in lines before. Sometimes when the cap is taken off a piece will break off and land in the top of the barrel, the coupler is put on and right up the line it goes. Also was the inlet fitting changed out when the pump was changed? Could be something in there also.There other thing I have had happen, is the splicer cut into the side of the 3/16" inch vinyl choker making a flap, that would close and cause restriction in the line. However I don't think this is the problem being the line worked at one time.

[Scott Zuhse]

This is a Glastender system. Thus, the pumps. I was not present when they bypassed the pump. I would imagine the flow speed was slightly slower. The regulator was the first of a bank of three.

I am leaning towards some debris in the system. It has to be somewhere around the pump or the tower. This is the only issue that would cause a line that worked previously to begin experiencing an issue. I'll call these guys and instruct then to back flush the tower and also check the Flo Jet inlet and outlet nipples. Hopefully the beer distributors are not playing games. Keep suggestions coming before these guys drain another keg trying to figure this out. Thanks for all of your input.

[wineglow]

I agree with BeerDoctor to back flush -- 9 out of 10 times it is plastic pieces from those Labbats caps. Sometimes it takes as much as 5 gallons of liquid backflushing to get it dislodged. You can try filling the line with strongest cleaning solution let it sit for an hour and then back flush.

Why pumps on 40 foot system?

[draftmaster]

i agree i is possibly a piece of plastic in the line , had the same problem harp cap piece caught up in custom kool rite tower behind shank took me a lot of cleanings and even tried blowing it out with air compressor got it eventualy

[Scott Zuhse]

The techs will be swapping 3/16" choker below tower to attempt to isolate the tower as the issue. I'll keep everyone posted.

[TAPMAN]

That could be the problem,depending on how old the system is,there was some beer hose out there that would collapse on the inside. If it was clear hose ,you could see it, black hose you couldn't. Also,depending on which trunk they used, they have a '' glass'' lined hose that has caused lots of problems, but since the trunk was replaced, that is most likely not it. Tapman

[Scott Zuhse]

The techs were unable to switch choker lines to isolate the tower. However, they did solve the problem even though it may be just a temporary fix. Using a flow control faucet, they increased the pump pressure into the 40's and used the control on the faucet to regulate flow speed.

Possibly the higher pressure was not allowing whatever debris may be in the system from fluttering, thus causing agitation. The tower may be replaced soon and the system upgraded to eight faucets.

[wineglow]

I don't see a flow control faucet listed in the catalog --Do you have any info on them. We used them a lot in the 1960's. It would be nice to keep one on hand as a temporary fix until you could come back to an account and spend more time to fix the real problem.

[Scott Zuhse]

We probably have access to these. I'll contact you with info.

[Jeff Stanley]

Originally Posted by Scott Zuhse

Stopped by a Chili's recently to assist techs troubleshooting an issue with one line on a 45' glycol system with Flo jet pumps. They had already replaced just about everything including trunk line. One product, Miller Lite on line four, continues to cause issues. Two to almost three glasses will pour clear and then suddenly nothing but foam.

These guys replaced the trunk line, regulator for pressure to the keg, coupler, faucet, splicers between connections, bypassed the pump as well as replaced, placed other products on the line, switched pressure lines form one coupler to the next, confirmed power pack was operating correctly and the only item not replaced was the tower.

What is strange is as soon as the foam hits, the faucet is closed immediately and when opened shortly thereafter, it is clear as a bell. This system has ****ed in the past. Seems as soon as Ultra was replaced by Lite, problem began.

Any ideas?

I call bs

Gas break-out in the cooler, BEFORE the pump. Jumper, tailpieces, or coupler. this is an old-school keg-box type problem

did ya ask them to flashlight test it? Glasstender has clear jumpers.

Keg/cooler temp

too little primary regulator CO2 pressure
primary-regulator-->secondary-regulator-->keg

Is it really balanced? Too little secondary pressure.

broken reefer on keg truck (it takes hours to days to chill a keg in some coolers)

coupler-probe washer

greasy soil in the hose

too much restriction: not enough flow rate to flush gas pockets from trunk line.



I haven't the energy to defend pump systems right now, but do you really get more service calls from flo-jets than you do for idiots running out of N2? Every system-type has drawbacks.

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Glasstender: now thats what a stainless faucet looks like!

[Scott Zuhse]

Tower was changed and problem solved. Techs believe debris was lodged in stem of old tower.