Help: Great Lakes Beer & CO2 Settings

[Ruddiger]

Howdy,

Long time lurker, first time poster, who needs some advice on getting the co2 settings right for his system.

I'll describe my set up first and offer my many questions second. Thanks in advance for your assistance as my brain cells have had it coming for a long time and I want to be able to finish them off in style.

In August I installed a chest freezer conversion in my basement. Thanks to all for steering me away from a kegerator by the way. All of my brewing equipment, minus the temperature control, is inside the freezer. I am running three 1/6 kegs of Great Lakes beer. Although the flavors are different, the co2 by volume is 2.65. My temperature, based upon a glass of water and a digital thermometer, is around 33 degrees. My co2 tank is inside the freezer, as are the glasses that I drink out of. My co2 tank is currently set at 12 psi but has been as low as 8 psi. My beverage lines from the keg to the cup are less than 4 feet and they too are inside the freezer.

In talking to a brewer at the brewery, which is about 25 minutes from my house, I was told that every system is different and that I should turn the co2 tank down to zero and slowly dial it up until I get a good pour. I was also told that at those colder temperatures that a keg is fine at 9-10 psi as far as carbonation goes.

Since then I have ran it at 8, 9, 10 and 12 psi. In all cases, my first pour is a little to a lot foamy unless I squirt out the equivalent of a shot glass or two into another cup prior to filling a pint. After that, at 8-9 PSI, the pour is the best. At 12 PSI its a really fast flow. In my opinion, too fast.

None the less, at all of the above settings I do not have as many "bubbles" rising from the bottom of my cup as the local bar does serving the same beverage. Not even close to as many. They claim their freezer is set to 35 degrees so there is a 2 degree difference in our set up. Also, I am washing my glasses in the sink with Dawn, which I know I shouldn't do, so I do not know if that is adding to the problem. Finally, I go through the 3 kegs in about 5 weeks and have never seen them to be what I would consider flat, at any of the above settings but, who knows.

OK, here are the many questions.......

What should I be setting the co2 tank to to get a perfect pour for these beers?

Is a perfect pour one that is immediately done (I mean the first one of the day) from the tap to the cup or should I always squirt the couple of ounces that are in the line out prior to pouring what is in the keg, particularly on the first beer of the night out of that keg?

Is my co2 setting too low at 9-10 to keep the beer properly carbonated?

Is it too high at 12 for my set up?

Do I need to go even higher with my settings?

Why do I have less bubbles in my beer than the local bar?

Is it because of my co2 setting (which they claim is set to 15-20 on their beers), the soap, the temperature I have my beer at, the shape of my glass, all of the above and more?

With my shorter lines, stored at the same temperature as the keg, do I need to run the same co2 pressure as the local bar whose lines are much, much longer?

Is there something else I should be asking?

I apologize in advance for all of the questions but I really want to get this thing to be perfect now and in the future. Any tips would be greatly appreciated as the Browns are 1-7, Mangini seems to be going nowhere and the beer is the only thing keeping me from diving off the I-480 bridge. Help a brother out!!!

Thanks and take care,

Ruddiger

[TomK]

Hi Ruddiger,

You need to measure the temperature of the beer (2nd pour), but even if it was as low as 33 deg, the chart says 10 psi for 2.65 v/v at sea level. Add to that a pound or two for push and you're at around 12 psi. But again, you need to measure the actual beer temperature (with a calibrated thermometer) to determine the right pressure setting. And since it sounds like it will end up being 12 psi or higher, depending on the temp, the 4 ft lines are going to be too short and the pour too fast, as you already saw at 12. So, I see longer beer lines in your future.

As for bubblage: From what I've seen on the topic, bubbles rising from the bottom of the glass are not really a good thing. Maybe your glasses are just "beer clean"-er than the local bar's? I don't think I'd worry about bubbles. You really just want the beer to taste like it's supposed to, right?

Lastly, did you include a tower cooler on your chest freezer conversion?

Tom

[Ruddiger]

TomK,

Thanks for the reply. No, I do not have a tower cooler on the freezer. Its a 7 cubic foot freezer and, after adding the 3 1/6 kegs, the co2 tank, the glasses and the box of baking soda there is not much room left. Also, I was under the impression that a tower was only needed for the kegerator. Obviously cold air sinks so, even in my system, the lines may be in a warmer spot than the bottom of the keg. Could that make such a difference in the pour?

Also, back to the pour question..... am I wasting beer by draining the line prior to my first pour? I know the brew shop that I purchased the equipment at recommended it, but I am beginning to think that they did so because their lines travel from outside of their freezer to the wall and, due to temperature changes, they toss out the un-insulated contents.

I will post later today about the temperature of the 2nd glass. I think you may be right on the length of the lines. If so, how long do I need to go? Would 8 foot lines cover what I need to do?

Finally, I am pouring into pint glasses. They seem to work much better than a 12 ounce pilsner glass or standard beer mug. Does shape, and perhaps size, of the glass make that much of a difference? If so, is there a particular design that works the best?

Thanks and take care,

Ruddiger

[KillianBoy]

Ruddiger,
Some say start at 10 and work your way down. If you can get beer line quickly and without problem, maybe you can start with 8, if too fast still go get 9 or 10. Some beers might need different lengths (light might need longer, stouts and ales shorter), just need to experiment.

About glasses, Dawn if fine as long as you wash them out thoroughly with water before you chill. Some say frozen mugs can cause foam, my experience that's true, warm them up a bit before pouring. If you take temp make sure you use a room temperature mug or pint glass. I never found any differences in type of glass.

Even a freezer might need some sort of fan for circulation, your tower might also need some extra insulation if your first pour is really foamy.

KB

[TomK]

Well, a tower is a tower whether it's sitting on top of a Bev-Air, Danby, or a chest freezer. So, unless it is insulated and has some forced air cooling, it's going to want to assume the temperature of the surrounding air in your basement. That can give you the "foamy first pour" problem.

Like KillianBoy suggests, I also started with a 10 ft length of beer line and ended up cutting it down to about 8 ft. But my kegerator has a 1 ft SS tailpiece in the tower, so I'm really at about 9 ft of total length. I'm guessing I probably could have cut another 6 or 12 inches off the hose, but I reached a pour rate that I was happy enough with and I run light beer sometimes, so I stopped at 8. We're talking an extra 2 or 3 seconds to pour a pint, so who's in such a hurry where that matters, other than a busy bartender?

And you're right that pouring out the initial bit of foam is wasting some beer. Whether or not it adds up to be enough to fret about, depends on how often you have to do it. I have to pour an ounce or two of foam pretty much every trip to the kegerator in order to get a good pour, because even though my tower is cooled and insulated, the kegerator is out on the patio, so it can't maintain a cold enough temp in the tower for very long. I pour a little in the glass until I see the stream start to clear, chug that, then pour mine and the wife's and anybody else's glasses that need refilling. Then drink, wait for wife to catch up, and repeat.

[hrosvit]

Sounds to me like your issues would be solved by cooling the tower, or accepting that the first couple ounces are going to be foamy.

I have a chest freezer build with four taps, and started with 5' beer lines to all taps. I eventually switched to 10' on two of the taps to make Blue Moon play nice, and then Yuengling Light.

I have run four or five consecutive 1/6 kegs of Great Lakes Eliot Ness Amber Lager through one of the 5' lines, with the pressure set at 12 and the temp at 36, and they poured like a dream. I have a homebuilt tower cooling system, incidentally.

[hrosvit]

Wait a minute; I just re-read your post - you're a Browns fan.

As a Steelers fan, I would like to withdraw any useful advice I gave you. Please set your pressure to 153 and the temp to -14.