50% foam

[ph52ml]

I was hoping someone out there can help. I have had a Kenmore Beer Mister for almost a year now. The first few kegs were fine, but now for the last 3-4 kegs no matter what I do I get half a glass of foam. I have read a lot of posts on this site regarding similar issues. I recently put a thermometer inside the mister. If I sit it on the bottom of the mister it reads anywhere from 35-40. If I put it on top of the keg (half keg) it reads 40. I have the temperature knob turned up almost all the way (about 95% of the way). If I go any higher I get a lot of ice build up on the cooling plate. A couple inches thick by the time the keg is gone and I still get half a glass of foam. I take the temperature of the beer coming out of the tower and it is usually between 42-45, every glass regardless of how many I pour. I have tried changing the c02 pressure, anywhere from 2 - 10 psi. The higher the pressure the faster the foam comes out. I clean my lines and all the fittings between every new keg. My beer line is about 4 ft long. The frustrating part is a few of my friends have the same Kenmore unit and they are not having this problem but everything seems to be setup the same way. It seems like a lot of people recommend a cooling fan but if that is the case why would others work with the same model and they were all purchased around the same time? If anyone out there could help I would greatly appreciate it! It is getting extremely frustrating and I am not sure what else to check or how to get it colder, if that is the problem.

[EKennett]

With that kind of temperature difference you definitely need a fan to move things around inside the cooler. You want the temperature of the beer to be 38 degrees. No other temperature matters. What kind of beer are you serving? It makes a difference for how much pressure to put against the keg. But with the temps you are describing, almost any beer will require in excess of 16psi to get a good pour.

Here's what you should do:
1) Wire in a PC fan to blow air around inside the cooler. Search the forum for the specifics.
2) Turn down the temp of the unit until the beer coming out of the faucet measures 38 degrees F.
3) Set your CO2 regulator to the appropriate pressure based on the type of beer you are serving.
4) Increase your line length to at least 8 feet. Get beer line from Micromatic, not crappy vinyl line from Home Depot.

[pvs6]

Here's what you should do:
1) Wire in a PC fan to blow air around inside the cooler. Search the forum for the specifics.
2) Turn down the temp of the unit until the beer coming out of the faucet measures 38 degrees F.
3) Set your CO2 regulator to the appropriate pressure based on the type of beer you are serving.
4) Increase your line length to at least 8 feet. Get beer line from Micromatic, not crappy vinyl line from Home Depot.

And a tower fan may be a good idea too.

You said the first couple of kegs were good. By that do you mean as far as foam creation? I know the first good kegs were about a year ago but do you remember if the beer poured colder then than it does now? I ask because your current temp over 40 is too high and is foam prone so if it was always this temp. you should have always had foam issues too. That would lead me to think you may have lost some cooling capacity and that coupled with the excessive ice build up of recent seems to point in the direction of an air leak. Did the icing start at about the same time as the foaming? If the keg space is sealed so no outside air can get into your unit and you don't open the door once you put the keg in there then there is only so much water vapor or humidity available to freeze and you shouldn't be able to condense that much water vapor into ice that thick, you'd run out of water vapor to freeze first. Warm moist air from the room entering the unit would explain both the loss of cooling and the ice build up. Most often an air leak is the result of the door magnetic seal or the door itself getting bent or warped putting the keg in. A way to check for air leaks is to put a bright flash light turned on in your unit at night and close the door and turn off the room light. With the room as dark as possible look all around the the door edges even the bottom use a mirror if you must. If you can see any light escaping from the box you've found a leak. If you find none on the door then look in back where the Co2 line enters if you have an outside tank. It's not likely with the amount to ice your reporting but pop the tower cap and be sure the rubber O-ring is still in place on the cap. If you find no air leaks This being a Sear's kenmore a year old are you still under warrantee? Take it back where you got it and demand your rightful satisfaction. Maybe they will give you a new one and you'll have bragging rights over your buddies of owning a newer one than them.

[ph52ml]

Thanks for the suggestions EKennet, I will try to get to a couple of them this weekend, hopefully sooner. If I get a longer line, would it hurt the keg if I untap it and run the new line? It is only a week old so still a lot of beer in there. You also said that with the beer temp at 40 it would take a psi close to 16 for a good pour. So do you think even with the temp around 40 if I turn up the psi it should balance out the foam? It seems like a lot of post recommend anywhere from 12-16 but the higher I turn mine the faster and the worse the foam is. My keg is miller lite.

[ph52ml]

Thanks for the help PVS6. That is what I was wondering... if something happened to change the temp. I do think the beer was a little colder on the first few kegs but I know for a fact there was not this much foam. This all seemed to start when I got a black/rubber keg, not the metal/aluminum ones I had previously. The beer never seemed to get cold enough and seemed to have more foam so I thought it was because of the material the tin was made out of. So I kept turning the temperature up and it never seem to get to the right temp until the the last couple beers of the keg before it was kicked. When I took this keg out is the first time I noticed all the ice on the cooling plate. There was a little bit before, but never this amount. Since I started playing with the temp and the c02 pressure I was opening the door a lot which may have let in some warm air. I also started to store a couple six packs in the mister around the same time so was opening the door to get them out. I guess I have been opening the door a lot lately to check the temp of the thermostat and cup of water I put in the mister. But over the last couple months there have been plenty of times where the door was not opened for at least a week and the beer was still half foam, I am also no longer storing anything else in there. Unfortunately my mister is over a year old. Sears has been no help, tried calling them and they just said to drop off at a repair center but what is the point? I doubt they will do as much troubleshooting as I have and just give it back the same way. Also is a big hassle to drop it off and have to pick it back up. Was thinking of having a refrig repair guy come take a look but thought that might be expensive... So I decided to reach out to some people on this site and see if I could fix the problem on my own with some help. The flashlight idea sounds like a good one. I will give that a try and let you know how I make out. I just cant seem to think that something is wrong, being that it worked fine before.... I can live with the first glass being a little foamy if the tower isn't cooled (it is insulated by the way) but every glass is ridiculous.

[ph52ml]

One more note.... When I had all the ice build up on the cooling plate I turned the temp down between kegs to let it defrost. The next morning I had a decent amount of water in the meister and on the floor around it. There is a drip tray in the back of the mister that was full with water. I wonder if defrosting the unit could have caused a problem in anyway?

[TomK]

Defrosting the fridge is good for it. The usual way is to just unplug it and open the door. Also, untapping the keg doesn't do any harm; it re-seals itself.

[pvs6]

(1)This all seemed to start when I got a black/rubber keg, not the metal/aluminum ones I had previously.
(2)When I took this keg out is the first time I noticed all the ice on the cooling plate.
(3)I guess I have been opening the door a lot lately to check the temp of the thermostat and cup of water I put in the mister.
(4)Was thinking of having a refrig repair guy come take a look but thought that might be expensive...

(1)The black rubber 1/4 barrel of a Coors or Miller product? (2)Again is it the rubber covered Coors or Millers 1/4 extra wide keg? (3)Opening the door promotes ice build up. (3)Quote: "I guess I have been opening the door a lot lately to check the temp of the thermostat and cup of water I put in the mister." By thermostat you meant thermometer right? (4)"Repair guy bad okay?" Sorry for the South Park Mr. Mackie infection there. Likely you don't know what I just said with that obscure reference so the point is don't call a repair man out He'll charge anywhere from $50.-$100. bucks just to show up and likely won't be able to solve it anyway. If you decide to go the professional route then take it to a authorized Sear's repair place they are more likely to fix it.



(1 and 2) Rubber and well actually in that case a plastic that imitates rubber used by Coors \ Millers 1/4 wide barrels protects the kegs from damage but like a coat or blanket it slows temp. transfer. I can't figure out why they did it? The keg is to wide to fit in a lot of kegerators , are we under the radar? Don't they care about our market share. And protection can't really be a issue I'd never had a keg explode or dent.
(3)Water in a glass will give you a ballpark figure but that isn't keg temp. A lot of people tell you your 2nd pour temp. is keg temp. and I believe them. But what they don't tell you is that first pour is beer line and tower temp. Ie: if there's much of a different about 2 degree at most there will be foaming. Measure only both first and 2nd pour not water glass or air temp. inside. 1st. is the top of the unit the 2nd. is the real keg temp. within a few tenths. Look for a wild difference and find foam.
(4)You can Likely tune this thing in without them, It will cost you some bucks but a lot less than a repair man. Do what the the quoted post says and I suggests and add a tower cooler and it will work on paper unless you have a lemon. It happens sometimes.


If I was you right now I'd go back to those kegs that worked for you at the start and see if they work still. I think that would tell you that you have a psi or temp. issue.

[KillianBoy]

ph52ml,
I was in Sears and saw the Kenmore and it was a Haier, exactly the same thing, from Haier manual:

Automatic Defrosting
It is not necessary to defrost the beer dispenser/refrigerator. Ice that has deposited on the evaporator is automatically defrosted when the compressor cycles off. The defrosted water collects in the water collection tray at the rear of the unit and evaporates.

So if unit is turned off the ice will melt, drip into the trough the drains through a small hole which will overflow water collection tray, if this happens again, you can put a towel under the cold plate as it defrosts, to prevent it from leaking on the floor. I don't think this was the cause of your problems.

I think fan, longer beer line should solve most of your problems, just listen to all the suggestions and you should be pouring back to perfect in no time.

And also just curious what beers have you run through it and which ones have caused the most foam.

KB

[ph52ml]

Thanks to everyone for their help. I just ordered a fan online and I am going to try and get out tomorrow to buy some longer beer line. I will let everyone know how I make out.
The black/rubber keg was a half of Miller Lite. Miller Lite is the only brand of keg I have had in this mister. I have only had one these units and will never get another one. Every time I go to the beer distributor I ask for a metal one now! If they don't have one I will go somewhere else but fortunately I haven't had that problem yet. I did read the instruction booklet several times about the auto defrost and other troubleshooting tips, but the problem is it never seemed to defrost itself for whatever reason. The ice kept getting thicker and I didn't think it would ever melt all that ice without turning it down myself. I have recently done this again and did put an old shirt under the cooling plate to soak up some of the water. I haven't opened the door for several days now and my beer temp is still around 43.
What is the best location and direction for the fan to be pointing once it comes in?

[KillianBoy]

ph52ml,
In my opinion, best is on bottom pointed straight up, you can also put a couple of boxes of baking soda to absorb the moisture when you have it closed other guys have suggested Damp-Rid but I think baking soda is cheaper. I mentioned the defrost cycle because it's a true cycle, compressor runs, ice forms, the compressor turns off, ice melts fills overflow pan, compressor kicks on, uses the water vapor to cool coils, water in pan goes down, the compressor turns on then ice forms,etc. If unit is turned off ice will melt till it makes a puddle. Maybe in the next keg you can dry out the unit make sure inside is clear of ice and water.

KB

[ph52ml]

Just wanted to throw a quick update out there. I have a home brew beer store not too far from me so I picked up a longer hose. Does anyone have a preference of 1/4 or 3/16? My old one that came with the kenmore was 3/16. The new one I believe is 1/4. The line itself is thicker, but the whole for the beer to flow through is smaller. So far it doesn't look like it has made a difference... This is the one the guy at the store suggested and it is 8 ft long.
I am going to test for leaks tonight with the flashlight suggested earlier.
Still waiting on the fan to arrive, hopefully it gets here soon...

[KillianBoy]

ph52ml,
The INNER diameter HAS TO BE 3/16, the outer diameter has nothing to do with getting the beer to flow properly, it can be 1 inch or 1/4 inch outer diameter but inner diameter has to be 3/16, anything different will cause a multitude of problems.

KB

[ph52ml]

Thanks KB
I kept the old line and did no damage to it while changing, I can always put it back or get a new one at 3/16. The beer seems to be flowing pretty much the same... maybe a little more foam than the older line but not much... To add a new twist to the problem.... Just for the hell of it I bought a new thermometer today while I was out. It is a digital meat thermometer. It states the beer temp is 38-40! I put the old one in and it still reads around 44-45. They are both digital thermometers and I have been taking the temp of every beer I have tonight. Now I don't know what the beer temp is??? I do have to say that the beer tastes like it is cold, could be a little colder but doesn't taste warm by any means... So I am starting to think that even when the fan does come in it might not solve my problem..... IF it doesn't... what else can I look at? The c02 pressure is around 6 right now, if I turn it up higher it comes out faster and I get more foam. It is a brand new line so there is nothing stuck in it or dirty. I clean the fittings between every keg and I made sure the ball is not sticking in the coupler.

[TomK]

Check your thermometers in a glass of ice water. The one that reads closest to 32 deg is the one you want to use.

And if you're using the 1/4" line, then the fact that you get a fast flow rate and foam is exactly why you don't use 1/4" line for these short runs. Also, 6 psi is going to result in flat beer pretty soon.

[ph52ml]

Thanks Tom
I just checked the temperature in a glass of ice water. I filled a pint glass up with ice then filled with water. The new thermometer that I bought today (the one that shows the beer between 38-40) shows the ice water temp at 32.5 The other one shows it at 37, this is the one that shows the beer at 44-45
So I guess my beer is around the right temp... could be a little colder, but could this temp really be causing a half a glass of foam on every pour?

[KillianBoy]

ph52ml,
The beer line has to be 3/16 at 7+ feet, if you insist on using 1/4 I think someone did a computation on forum and came up with 20+ feet to slow flow and reduce foam. If you are using 1/4 the beer is probably shooting out like a garden hose, you need to change line to 3/16, if you are using 1/4 inch. 1/4 inch beer line is mainly for commercial use. Again, DO NOT USE 1/4 INCH BEER LINE, YOU NEED TO USE 7 + FEET OF 3/16 BEER LINE.

KB

[ph52ml]

KB,
I decided to open the door this morning and check during the daylight. Didn't want to open the door but I did. The line says 3/16 ID x 7/16 so it looks like it is 3/16. The whole in the line looked smaller then my older one but it says 3/16... I even cut the end of the old hose off because I thought maybe it was stretched out from sitting on the old fitting, it still looks to me that the older one is a little bigger but I guess numbers don't lie.... So at this point, it looks like I have a 3/16 beer line at 8 ft, beer temp between 38-40 (with new thermometer that reads 32.5 in a glass of ice water) and psi somewhere around 8-10. Hard to tell exactly since the actual numbers on my gauge go from 0 to 20, so I am guessing at the number by looking at the lines between the numbers. Hope that isn't too confusing...

[Scott Zuhse]

What beer are we dispensing here? Very few products out there that would require a low pressure in the area of 8-10 PSIG. You probably should be closer to 14 PSIG.

When calibrating the thermometer, fill your glass with ice, add water and then pack more ice into the glass.

[KillianBoy]

Scott Zuhse,

I think he said Miller Lite.

ph52ml,
OK thanks for clarifying 1/4 would be a disaster and make everything we're telling useless. The main problem seems to be the ice, it could be throwing the sensor off and also keep cold plate from getting to maximum cold. Take your glass of water out (it just adds more water into the environment), if you want to when ice is gone you can put the glass of water back. I made this suggestion to a Haier owner, you can turn off unit for a couple of hours after you finish drinking and/or in the early morning hours after you get up this will slowly melt the ice.

Once ice is gone, fan running, listen to Scott and bump PSI up to 14, don't open the door as often (don't store canned or bottled beer in kegerator ever again, that's what refrigerators are for), you should be fine.

When you report how the next pour is please note, speed of pour slow or fast (fills in 1 second fast, in 10 seconds slow), is there foam on every pour or just the first, how pour looks (white all the time or white only in beginning, how long it's white) and accurate temperature readings, this will give people a idea of what the problem is.

KB

[ph52ml]

My fan came in today. I am going to borrow a soldering iron from work tomorrow and put it in. I picked up a timer today while I was out and hooked up the meister to it. I will have it shut off between 3-5am. Just to clarify... I don't have any ice on there right now, this usually builds up by the time I go through the keg. Is it still necessary to shut the unit off if there isn't any ice on the plate? There is some frost, but no ice yet. I have had a couple beers tonight and they have all been around 37-38 degrees (with the new thermometer I bought), except for the first one, I didn't take the temp of this one. Every beer I pour is still coming out half foam, but this is the beer temp it seems that everyone agrees it should be. I am hoping the fan will resolve this but starting to have doubts if my beer is already at the temp it should be without the fan... I am using a standard bar pint glass, it takes about 5 seconds to fill with beer, the first second or so it looks a little white, but then turns to beer while coming out of the faucet. I tried to turn the c02 pressure up to around 12-14 but the beer just comes out faster and more foam, closer to 75% glass of foam compared to the 50% I am getting at 8-10 when I turned it back. I also put a flash light in there and shut off all the lights in the room as suggested earlier in one of the posts. I don't see any light coming out anywhere...

[KillianBoy]

ph52ml,
If there is no ice on cold plate then you can try and run it without the timer. One member said he runs regular cycle from beginning to end with no timer and his ice builds and builds and when keg is empty he defrosts. I run a timer with no ice at all, off 2-3 hours a night. When you get fan in and temperatures properly adjusted you can find the best way to deal with ice.
You may also have to insulate the tower better or get tower cooler, ambient temperature of location of kegerator may be causing foam problems.
From length beer line you have and how it pours as you described at CO2 level and PSI your keg maybe over carbonated, after your finished tonight you can shake keg a little and tug pressure relief valve on coupler and vent a little CO2 and leave over night and see what happens the next evening. You could even get wet towel, refrigerate to cool and wrap around when before pouring and see what happens, again everything is a experiment from now on to see how you can solve your foaming problems.

KB

[ph52ml]

OK. I just finished putting in the fan, we will see if it makes a difference. I have it pointing up towards the top of the keg, the fan itself is sitting just below the c02 tank. I have been monitoring the temps this week after putting the meister on a timer and having it shut off for 2 hours in the morning. The beer seems to be colder, beer temp is reading around 34-36, even on the first pour. I know the inside temp doesn't matter but I kept a thermometer in the meister on top of the keg. Before I made any changes this was reading around 40 if it was sitting on top now it is reading around 36-38 so it seems like having the unit shut off 2 hours a day is helping keep the unit colder. The beer is still a lot of foam, I even tried turning the c02 down a little bit just to see if it would help. The beer came out a little bit slower, but still pretty close to the same amount of foam. I am really hoping this fan helps.... Seems like my beer is at the right temp right now and still having this foam problem.

[KillianBoy]

ph52ml,

Try not to fiddle with PSI too much, get the "exact" temperature of the second glass, then set PSI to that temperature (plus 1 or 2 pounds for push), use a beer balance chart or
Maintaining Draft Beer Equilibrium

Again it's all experimentation, try not to open the door too much, when your done drinking, then open to check. I never open the door before I drink, it brings down inside to near 60 degrees, then takes a long time to get back to normal temps, again try different things, cold wet towel, extra insulation, do anything to get a better pour. If still pours fast and foamy, might be over carbonated, you can try and shake keg and release CO2, couple of times then leave overnight again try the beer, search forum for tips and tricks and have fun.

KB

[ph52ml]

Fan has been in for 24 hours. First beer out of the miester today was a couple hours ago. No difference.... still 50% foam
I turned the temp up all the way after that one, (was close to all the way before this anyway..) had a couple more and same thing. Once I got to the fourth one it actually looked like it was getting better, couldn't wait for the next beer to see if it was going to be right! What happend on the next pour.... Nothing! it was frozen and wouldn't come out of the lines! I appreciate everyones help so far with this... but have a couple questions....
ONE - if my beer temp is what it should be (36-38) should I be looking at another fan or a tower cooler? Like I said previously, my beer is the same temp on the first pour as it is for the rest of the night. If not, I could see thinking the tower isn't cool enough, but it seems like it is. Should the beer temp be colder than 36-38 on the first pour or any other???
TWO - Killian Boy, you mentioned maybe my beer is overcarbonated. From what I have read, it seems like the c02 being too high can cause this, but everyone seems to agree that it should be around 12-14 and mine is closer to 6-8... What else can cause overcarbonation?
THREE - when I change kegs I clean the lines, take the faucet off and leave that in a bucket with the coupler and let it soak in the solution, run the solution through the lines and then let the clean water run through the lines and the copuler and faucet. This is a brand new line so there is no way the line is dirty... Is there another way to clean everything thoroughly?
FOUR - I have read a lot of posts on this site about foam. Found one the other night from a long time ago who said after they had tried everything to get rid of the foam they ended up turning off the c02 valve when they got a new keg, tapped the keg, opened the faucet and letting it run for 30 seconds to let all the pressure get out of the keg, then turn the c02 on and haven't had a problem since. Someone else agreed with this on the same post. Has anyone tried this? Could this help the problem or make it worse by possibly having the keg go flat?

[KillianBoy]

ph52ml,
Sorry got to make this quick, over carbonation comes with frozen keg (lighter liquid freezes and CO2 comes out of solution) also foam. Turning thermostat warmer will not instantly change temp of beer in keg, all it will do is change the amount of time for cycling, if too cold turn warmer and wait 24 hours or longer before you see results. Placement of fan is also is key, if you can post picture of what your inside looks like it might help diagnosis. Try rocking keg if you can hear ice hitting side of keg if you hear ice, best to turn off unit for a couple of hour tonight and tomorrow morning, then start over tomorrow night. It could be the top part of your beer froze before you put fan in, had same problem with Michelob Ultra, got to go will post more later.

KB

[KillianBoy]

ph52ml,
1) The temperature of the beer needs to be exact, 36-38 is an estimation, 37.5 is a temperature, you took a reading of water one time of 32.5 of water, you need to be just as exact with your beer. Members have said they have their beer at 39 others at 34, for light beer anything under 36 is a little touchy, if temps in unit aren’t consistent you might freeze part of the beer, I think that’s what happened before you put in the fan. If you don’t have a tower cooler, your first pour will be warm and foamy, second pour should cool the lines and faucet enough to pour at true beer temperature. If your beer failed to pour it could be frozen line, coupler or frozen beer in keg, check as I indicated to find problem of not pouring.

2) I think I answered this in first post, PSI for beer between 36-38 for an American lager 11-12 PSI, anything below you might end up with flat beer.

3) I also soak parts in BLC between kegs, but I also take apart the faucet and coupler down to the component parts (like the exploded diagram in “replacement parts” in store section), them lube using the MM lube, then usually replace beer line every 2nd or 3rd keg.

4) Someone mentioned he did this and poured perfect but without the CO2 pushing, it will go flat like a can of soda left overnight.

If you want to pour perfect Miller Lite every time you might have to go with a temperature controller, this will keep unit more consistent temperature –wise. Light beers are very touchy, they need perfect temperature and gear must be defect free.

Can you post what the pour looks like (once you get it running) Scott suggested that you pour till clear then change glass and continue pouring clear into another glass and see if getting rid the initial foam may keep foam from building in the entire glass and how fast it pours? 1 second fast, 10 seconds slow (if it still pours fast you may have to go to 10 feet of line) I usually coil the beer line at the top of the keg (I found airflow from fan was freezing line), I think your keg is at or near halfway point this is where you may have to turn thermostat to a slightly warmer setting. Again it all trial and error, especially light beers.

KB

[ph52ml]

Thanks KB,
I am attaching a picture of the inside of the meister. Right now I have the fan propped up against the c02 line pointing up (until I get around to mounting it better and didn't want to keep the door open too long) The fan is usually pointing upward more but I lifted the keg to see how much was left in it before I took the picture. When I say the beer temp is between 36-38, I have been taking the temp of every beer I have so they vary... The next time I have one I will post the exact temp of the first and second, but they both have been falling between that range since putting it on a timer. My keg is almost gone so I will be cleaning the lines again this weekend before I get a new one. I take the faucet apart but my coupler doesn't look like it comes apart, maybe it is a cheap one they send with the unit. I will try to scrub the both of them down better but I feel like I usually do a good job with them. I am also thinking about getting a 10 ft line since the 8 didn't seem to slow my pour down much. The first second or so of the pour it comes out in a stream and foamy, after this the beer seems to come out clear and all liquid. If I let the first second or so drip in the tray and then put the glass under the faucet I can get a better pour but still not what it should be unless I let it run for several seconds and this seems to be wasting a lot of beer if I do that on every pour so I dont. If I close the faucet and open it right back up and pour another beer immediately afterwards it is the same scenario. Hopefully I will have some more news for you this weekend after cleaning everything again. Last time I cleaned the lines I did see some small black particles floating in the water the coupler and faucet were soaking in (not a lot but a couple), but once I scrubbed them with the brush and flushed everything out with the cold water after running the solution through I didn't see them anymore.

[KillianBoy]

ph52ml,
Sorry if I knew you were near the end I'd have asked you wait to take picture, I'd get a old peanut can with holes and put the fan on it blowing up, see attached from MM replacement parts, part 7 comes off and everything comes apart. I'd also would make thermostat a little warmer when you put the new keg in. When you change kegs, can you post picture of the empty kegerator, I think it's a rebranded Haier.

KB

[ph52ml]

WOOHOOOOOOOOOOOOO
The new keg is flowing BEAUTIFULLY!!!!!!! Think I FINALLY found the problem. The faucet was dirty!!! I clean the lines/fittings between every keg but the cleaning instructions say use warm water. One of my last posts I mentioned that I saw some black particles floating in the water. This time I decided to use HOT water and I saw the black particles floating in the water again, I took the scrub brush and scrubbed the sh*t out of it! I saw a lot of black particles floating in the water so I decided to boil some water and threw the faucet in it. I scrubbed the hell out of it and put everything back together. Once I tapped the new keg I have NO foam now!!! Thank you Killian Boy and everyone else who helped me try to solve this problem! It is GREATLY appreciated!!! It all makes sense now why the first couple kegs didn't foam and the last few did. The lines/fitting were dirty... Bothers me a little bit because I clean the lines between every keg and thought I did a good job but I guess I was wrong. RIght now I unplugged the fan I installed and my beer temp is 37, hope it gets a little colder once it has been in there a bit longer but right now I am LOVING life!

[KillianBoy]

ph52ml,

Fantastic, I had that problem first keg, thought I cleaned properly, then foam again (not as bad, heavier beer), then I found out how to take off faucet lever, as I pulled it out flecks of black something came out. After that everything is disassembled, cleaned and lubed, I found the stainless brush the best for proper cleaning.

I think warm water is sufficient if you use metal brush, the nylon is too soft, but if you feel it's necessary and works, then do it. Drink on.

KB

[ph52ml]

Just wanted to update the post, I know it has been a while. I thought I had solved my foam problems but unfortunately I didn't... Halfway through the keg they came back. I thought maybe the faucet was dirty again but it wasn't. I have been through 2 kegs since my last post and the foam is still the same. My faucet and coupler are definitely clean. When people are over and the beer is flowing the pours are good, but if there is more than 10 minutes between pours there is foam. It is frustrating because like some other people have said in posts, when I first tap the keg everything is fine reguardless of the time between pours, but after a couple days it starts foaming. I guess the only thing left to try is the tower cooler. After this keg I think I am going to give it a shot. If anyone has any other suggestions please let me know.

[KillianBoy]

ph52ml,
Sorry your problem wasn’t solved, sorry few questions again:

What’s the first pour like, foamy after a while then clear or spurt of foam then clear?

Is your fan running 24/7 is it blowing on the keg directly?

Is the regulator the stock Haier? What is the PSI set at?

So the keg pours perfect for the first ½ keg and then the foaming stars? And are you still pouring Miller Lite, how fast do you go through ½ of the ½ keg?

How does the cold plate look like light ice or iceberg?

I have found the lower half of the keg is the hardest to keep stable. I had a fan blowing directly on the keg, but I changed it to just circulation when I had major temperature swings, I think fans should just be used to circulate air and not artificially cool the keg or push cold air across the cold plate (I know a bunch of members would disagree). I also seem to be having problems with the Haier (Chinese) regulator, I set Budweiser to 14 but seems too foamy and over-carbonated, dropped it to 12 and seemed to pour better, I think regulator reads a little off. Another Haier (Kenmore) owner seemed to have problems with the regulator, I was going to reply but he ended up buying a new regulator.

When I had problems, I had to take the temperatures of every beer, logged down with temperature of unit, with all this information, I figured out the unit was defrosting during the time when beer was consumed. A timer turned off unit in early morning hours for about 1 hour before the owner of the unit starts drinking the beer. If you note major temperature swings and want to continue pouring Miller Lite you may have to install an external temperature controller.

Tower cooler is good idea but Temperature and pressure should be the concern first, to see if cooler will help take a frozen wet towel and wrap around tower when you pour beer to see if cooling the tower helps. I think the problem lies in other areas.

KB

[ph52ml]

Hi KB,
As always, thanks for replying.
The first pour seems to come out cloudy and after 2 - 3 seconds it turns to clear beer. When I first pull open the faucet it almost sounds like a can of soda or beer being opened, a release of pressure, if that makes sense. If I am drinking by myself it seems every beer comes out like this (maybe 10 - 15 minutes between beers), but if there are people over and not as long between pours they come out fine.
I haven't had the fan running for a while. It didn't seem to help before, my beer line froze and I didn't like the idea of it running 24/7
I am thinking about giving it another shot but I will have to re-solder one of the wires since it came off when I was changing a keg.
The regulator is the one that came with the unit, I have had doubts about this in the past and considered changing it but haven't... It is hard to read exactly what the pressure is since the gauge goes from 0 to 20. The pressure right now is around 10, again hard to tell exactly where it is but I say it is in the middle of the 0 and 20 so calling it 10. I had it a little bit higher but I felt my beer was over carbonated and was wondering if this could be part of the problem. There were a lot of big bubbles, almost looked like I was drinking champagne and not beer but tasted fine. I saw the other post where a Kenmore user felt a new regulator solved his problem, maybe I should try this... Yes, still drinking Miller Lite. The half keg last around 6 - 7 weeks but can go faster depending if we have people over. Over the holidays I went through them quicker, one in early December and a new one the day before New Years. Right now my cooler plate looks good. minimum ice build up between kegs. I had the unit plugged into a heavy duty appliance timer but more than once the timer didn't turn back on and I was drinking warm beer so I now have the unit plugged directly into the outlet. I will try the frozen towel trick this weekend and see if it helps my problem.

[KillianBoy]

ph52ml,

You really need to see what your exact PSI is, the Haier I look after goes up to 60 PSI, the ones I see for sale at MM looks the same, if you can't see it, try and take picture of it. I don't think your at 10, think your at 30 PSI, before you do anything else this needs to be confirmed. Attaching picture of what it should look like. Also if no heavy ice then timer isn't need but fan should run 24/7 (though my fan runs 12 to 16 hours a day), it helps keep the temperature stable. Take temperature of all glasses of beer that your pour with a digital thermometer, don't despair, it sounds like your PSI is set too high.

KB

[ph52ml]

Sorry KB
I think I may have explained my situation wrong... The gauge goes up higher then 20, but the first number available after 0 is 20. So in the picture you sent, where the first number after 0 is 10, mine is 20. So my needle is in the middle of 0 and 20. Sorry for the confusion, I will send a picture later on when I get home. My beer temp is still colder than the recommended 36 - 38, it is usually between 33 - 34 (each beer temp is a little different but usually falls in this range) I turned my thermostat down a little bit the other night to see if this could be part of my problem. Could it be?

[Killmeyer000]

When people are over and the beer is flowing the pours are good, but if there is more than 10 minutes between pours there is foam. I guess the only thing left to try is the tower cooler. After this keg I think I am going to give it a shot. If anyone has any other suggestions please let me know.

The last thing I am is an expert. I have the same kegerator as you. What you said in this post sure sounds like a tower cooler could help. Here is a link with some pics for when you start working on the tower cooler.

Kenmore or Haier Tips & Mods

[KillianBoy]

ph52ml,

Found pictures of a Draught Technologies regulator gauge will attach side by side with MM, the PSI and Barometric numbers are reversed MM red numbers are outside and are PSi the DT gauge red numbers are outside but are the barometric. I have to check the Haier Friday but i think my red numbers are like yours no # on first line the a 2 on second, so look at the inside black numbers and see what those read, should have a 10 and 20. Like I said Killmeyer000 tower cooler good idea, right now getting PSI set right should be priority, I will start a discussion about tower coolers which will probably stir a hornet's nest but needs to be discussed, but right now I think PSI and temperature needs to be stabilized.

KB

[ph52ml]

Thanks for the pics Killmeyer000. I have been wondering the same thing but want to make sure that is my problem.

KB
I tried taking a picture of my gauge but it isn't showing up very clear. I looked at the numbers and the black ones are the psi and the red are kpa. The black numbers are what I have been setting the psi to so I think I am good there, might be off a little because of the ******* regulator. The black psi numbers are on the outside and go up to 100, the inside red numbers go up to 700
I haven't tested my beer since turning the temp down the other night. I will keep you updated when I do.

[ph52ml]

Its the weekend.... Played with the kegerator..... After I turned the temp up last weekend it is worse than ever. Foam is 3/4 of the glass, even on the second pour, not even 2 minutes after the first. Second beer temp is 36.
If foam is caused by off temps.... my temp is 36... how is this possible???
Not sure if it is the tower now, if the second pour is still close to 50% foam.
I am almost ready to put this thing out on the curb next week for the trash pickup... CO2 is 10 psi. Something has to be wrong... I am going to buy a new regulator and coupler this weekend and change it out on the next keg, but doubt that is going to help.