Keg Pressure/Carbonation Pressure/Beer Type

[avdude]

Scott and other Micro guys...

is there any way to start an addtional section here where you could post a table, chart or other, based on your vast knowledge, and eventually establish an extensive database as a reference?

Any who...

Ditched the Foster's...could NOT get equalized no matter what...

so

what are the proper settings (roughly of course, and assuming clean everything) for:

Killian's 1/2 bbl
38 Degrees Liquid Temp
3885 feet above sea level

I saw in a different post here that you were recommending 16 psig at sea level...that would put me at roughly 21 psig here!

yes/no?

Thanks,

Brian

[Scott Zuhse]

Patience, we are working on this. We want to be certain that we can transfer knowledge which will assure minimal waste and protect product integrity.

Killians at 38 degrees and 3850 elevation requires 17 PSIG. Start with seven feet of 3/16" ID and trim back in four inch increments until flow rate is desired. Be certain that your temp. is 38 F.

Scott Zuhse, Instructor Micro Matic Dispense Institute

[avdude]

Thanks Scott...

Flow rate's a little fast right now, but not unbearable through 6 feet of 3/16"...wish I could've figured out the damn fosters!

[Scott Zuhse]

Foster's should be fine at 15 PSIG. Check the seal on the top of the keg and your coupler for wear. If your pressure goes someplace other than it was intended, bad news.

Scott Zuhse, Instructor Micro Matic Dispense Institute

[avdude]

Scott...

thanks for all the advice...

I think I need a choker!

Based on what you've said here, my pressures were right...my temp was right (except for the first beer drawn through the uncooled tower) and my glasses were clean...I'm gonna add a couple feet of choker line (from your inventory of course..please recommend connecters!) and see what transpires...

Beer tastes perfect, just can't tame the foam...need to slow flow obviously!

Thanks!

Brian

[Scott Zuhse]

You did not say anything about an uncooled tower. As to adding line, it would be easier to order the entire line length and replace.

Scott Zuhse, Instructor Micro Matic Dispense Institute

[hairbalz]

So I'm interested in this table. I see the problem of letting any yahoo post pressure numbers for a given beer, but surely someone from the industry could give the rest of us retards some guidelines. I think the majority of people on this forum get that balancing your system is clutch, but we need that all important co2 volumes number from the brewer. And I see over and over again the suggestion to "call the brewer and ask what they recommend for co2 volume." Which, good luck getting someone on the phone that knows what that is. My point is, if I can find a great database out there that tells me where to get co2 in my area, I should be able to find a great database out there that tells me what ranges my regulator should be set at "recommended" by brewers. Anyone disagree? Is someone working on this? Why don't brewers make this info easier to find? Don't they want me to enjoy more of their product? Isn't the point for us all to drink and be happy in a balanced environment? Whoa!! that sounded way hippie. Some one tell me this is started somewhere and where that somewhere is. Thanks.

[LasKid]

Does this list exist yet?

[joepizi]

Originally Posted by LasKid

Does this list exist yet?

re-read the thread, Scott said they are working on it.

[LasKid]

Originally Posted by joepizi

re-read the thread, Scott said they are working on it.

That was 2 years ago.

[joepizi]

Originally Posted by LasKid

That was 2 years ago.

My bad, but I do remember someone asked about this a couple months ago in a different thread and the answer was still the same....

[Scott Zuhse]

The issue with developing a list is that brewers are very reluctant in releasing this information since their recipes are proprietary. At this time, particularly craft brews, call brewery and ask for their carbonation level of the product in volumes. Tell them that you need to know this so that you can attempt to balance your system as close as possible.

The majority of the ales and lagers you will find will be in the 2.5 V/V range. A 2.5 v/v product @ 38 F requires slightly more than 11 PSIG for equilibrium of gas in the keg plus up to two PSIG additional "push pressure for dispensing . Thus, apply 13 PSIG to keg while dispensing. This equilibrium pressure guideline can be located on the Zahm-Nagel website.

For every two degree temperature change, adjust pressure one pound up for warmer, one down for colder. For elevation, adjust one pound for every 2000' above 1000'.

[LasKid]

Scott, that's very helpful information. Thanks. I read in another one of your posts that overcarbonation can cause foam and the colder the beer, the less co2 it needs. I think this may help me get rid of some foam. Thanks again.

[Scott Zuhse]

As we learned in Science class, a gas expands when heated and contracts when chilled. Beer has gas and this CO2 gas reacts no differently.

Our goal would be to attempt to maintain the beers' gas content the life of the keg and as we dispense from the keg to the faucet. To achieve this goal, we base the PSIG on the temperature of the beer, the volumes of gas in the beer, elevation and one to two pounds push pressure.

Sure helps when we can maintain constant temperature 24/7 at the keg and all of the way to the faucet. Good luck!

[Jluke557]

Can anyone please tell me do i open the bottle all the way? I just got a new regulator, I hooked up everything and i opened the bottle and the pressure shut up all the way to 30. I turned the screw all the way in to dcrease pressure nothing. Am i missing something do i just crack the bottle a little?

[jackstraw]

Open the bottle all of the way.

You need to release the pressure that's already gathered in the regulator. Try opening the valve on the regulator to do so. Then close the valve and slowly adjust the set screw on the regulator to regain pressure.

[tender]

I pursued Scott's recommendation about contacting the brewers for specific CO2 volumes for specific product brands. I am in Toronto and all beer in our province is retailed by one retailer which is a consortium of the large brewers. The retailer is called The Beer Store. This retailer runs a division which sets up draught systems in establishments and maintains draught lines. The division is called Draught Services.

I figured that if anyone had this information it would be this monopoly organized by the brewers. I spoke to several people in draft services and they could not give me specific C02 volumes for products. They not only were not aware of CO2 volumes, but they did not even know what a carbonation table was. They told me to start by adjusting the regulator at 8 psi and then adjust up until an appropriate setting was found. Finally, they referred me to a brewer - Labatt's. I telephoned the brewery and spoke with technical people who at first speculated that I was a home brewer looking to imitate the recipe for one of their brands. Then they passed me on to a "product specialist" and I got the woman's voice mail and the call was never returned.

I e-mailed Anheuser-Busch specifically about Bud and Bud Light and they actually responded to my e-maill extensively. Cudos to Anheuser-Busch! However, they did not give me CO2 volumes. The information they provided was a temperature and pressure setting - the same for both products. The temp setting was 38 degrees with a pressure setting of 12-14 psi. This is all well and good, but I have noticed a tendency for Bud Light to overcarbonate at the same setting as Bud.

I do not think that Micromatic will be able to put together a database with this information. I have found a website with a calculator which lets you calculate a pressure setting. The website is a homebrew website. It is:

The Beer Recipator - Carbonation

I am disappointed that I cannot get this information because, in my case, I run a catering service and have to setup and run many different varieties of beers depending on the event and the customer's preference. When I setup for my events, I do not have the time to fine tune regulator settings, let alone afford the wasteage in pouring-off beer, nor the inconvenience since there usually isn't a drain around to pour off the beer.

It seems to me that the CO2 volume/volume information is a well-guarded industry secret and it is the illusive holy grail of draught officianados.