Foam in first Beer Poured Then None

[dosequis15]

I have Haier (unit HBF05EABB)and have had foam problems since we got the unit 2 years ago. I finally found this forum!

Each night when we pour the first beer we get about half of pint of foamy beer and then the rest comes out properly. The rest of the beers for the night come out OKAY (provided we pour one at least once an hour).

I believe the problem is the temperature differential between the room-temperature tap and the cold beer. This would explain why it only happens with the first beer.

Anyone have any suggestions on how to fix the problem?

[dosequis15]

Followup question - is the tap itself supposed to be lubricated? I understand that seals are to be kept lubricated.

I can feel metal on metal grinding in the tap which I might normally give a squirt of WD40, of course I'm not going to do that but I would use the o-ring lubrication if needed.

Hope you guys can help soon!

[staylor]

I have this same unit. I have foam problems the entire time. The foam is worse during the first pour, but the foam never goes away.

(I don't mean to hijack your thread -- but our problems seem related)

I'm using 1/2 BBL Miller Lite. Beer Temp is 38F. CO2 line pressure is 10PSI. I have tried lower pressure, and I get less foam, but still too much, and I'm afraid to flatten the beer so I cranked the CO2 back to 10PSI. I've tried higher pressure and I get really fast-flowing foam, almost like silly-string!

When I first open the tap (quickly and correctly, pouring at 45 degrees), I get a huge blast of foam, then what appears to be clear beer, but even that beer foams in the glass. (I've tried putting the blast of foam into one cup, leaving the tap open, swapping to a new glass when the flow is clear, but still, 3/4 glass of foam. It disappates quickly (30s-1min) and the beer is drinkable and quite good, but I can't serve friends this beer for fear of looking like an ***.)

Thanks!

[staylor]

Now I'm really hijacking the original thread. I'm sorry. Moderator please split the thread if applicable.

I have just measured the temperature of a poured beer in mine and it's 44F. I think maybe my foam is due to high temp?
My HAIER unit is on full cold.
I read all the negative reviews of HAIER only after I bought the unit.
I understand I can open the thermostat and crank the screw manually to get a lower temp.
You think the temp is the reason for my foaminess?

[trip]

I have the Haier unit as well and I see the same thing at the higher temps. You got to get it down into the high 30s (38-36 preferably). Even at the right temp I still get some foam, but I've learned to overcome it during the pouring process. In theory as pointed out it appears the beer remaining in the tower for extended periods of time is at a different temp than what is in the lower line and the keg sitting within the frig. This is what I do and have so far significantly reduced the amount of foam. I start with a fresh glass and pour a quick 1/4 glass to remove the heated beer from the tower (dump it, its mostly foam). Next I rinse the glass with cold water removing any foam residue, this also chills the glass. Seems a warm glass with foam residue increases the foaming. After the rinse I immediately go back and pour at 45 degrees using a quick but gentle snap on the faucet. About 1/4 from filling the glass I do the reverse quick snap. If time has past between pours I only rinse the glass with cold water (no dump required) and repeat the process. Use the thermometer in water technique often spoke of in this forum to find the temp of the beer in the keg. This forum has a wealth of info/experience and has solved most if not all my problems. I now look like a pro when pouring in front of my buds. Good luck!

[dosequis15]

First, don't worry about the 'hijacking'. I'm glad to get some fresh ideas however they come.

I definately understand the "warm beer in the tower' principle. It sounds like there's not much room to overcome this problem.

To address 'staylor'. Your problem sounds a little more serious than mine. I'd suggest cleaning the lines if it's something you haven't yet done. We had ours for two years before I had cleaned the lines. Before cleaning I experienced the same continuous foam problem. The problem was, in fact, slowly escalating. But by cleaning the lines I returned the foam to just the first pour of any binge-drinking session. Hope this helps.

[topgun3208]

http://www.tommydehart.com/fun/keg/haier_brewmaster.htm

there is the link to the Haier t'stat fix. I have had my kegerator since april and still have to mess with the regulator now and then due to excess foraming. 44f is too high, I run mine @ 38f, 10-12 psi. have a keg of sam adams since last thursday and have had to adjust psi twice so far to avoid foaming. these things will keep you guessing. Scott the moderator must be on vacation, he should be back soon.

"If I had to live my life over, I'd live over a saloon"

[Dracoboar]

Hello guys how are you doing. This is my first post here. I read the op about the amount of foam on his first beer. As a former bartender I can tell you that this is normal. Everybar Ive ever worked in the line spit a foamy beer is It hadnt been used in a little while.

Watch carefuly the next time you order a beer from a bar. If that tap hasnt been used the bartender will let the beer run for a second before htey stick the glass / piture under it. I keep a large novelty beer glass by my tower to pour this first pour into whenever I have a party and the drinking slows abit


Good Luck.

-Easy man there a beverage here! .. The Big Lebowsky

[BigStein]

Anyone with a Haier needs to use the link above to fix the thermostat. That will solve the temp. problem no sweat. To really solve the problem with the tower you need to put in a blower (which I could use but haven't bothered to do). After that, it seems to depend keg to keg and brand to brand. As Topgun said, make adjustments as necessary. I am seeing a big foaming problem with my latest keg of Winterhook (which worked flawlessly the first few days I had it on tap), have no idea why. Just pouring it into a couple of growlers and sticking it in the fridge for a bit now, seems to solve the issue.

[topgun3208]

I'm to the point now when I pull a beer, I let it sit under the tap to settle down, then top it off to avoid waste. what does it take 20 seconds or whatever? no biggy here. just to let you know if you guys like beer mugs, I received my set of Libbey Heidleburg 16 oz mugs,washed them out really good then put them wet in the deep freeze and some sweet drinking after bout 10 minutes [xx(]

"If I had to live my life over, I'd live over a saloon"

[BigStein]

You gotta have the mugs in the freezer. I don't know about you guys, but different moods call for different glasses. I am partial to the 20 oz. English pub style right now, but like a nice pint glass, the frozen mug and even the old red plastic cup (you know, college style) from time to time.

[topgun3208]

"the old red plastic cup" that ol cup has gotten me knee deep in the hoopla over the years here especially during grass cutting season. I have tried to convince my wife that my lawnmower wont run right if I dont have a cup of suds while im cutting grass. she still wont buy it to this day

"If I had to live my life over, I'd live over a saloon"

[BigStein]

I am currently hard at work designing a cup holder for my snow blower. I assume that I will be able to fit it onto the lawn mower as well. I am pretty sure that it will be less of a problem to convince the wife that you won't run right without that cup. That's the stance I am going to take anyway.

[FootBallFan]

HI All...just found this place...first post....I have a brand new Haier beermaster just tapped my second keg...have been having the same problem...So far I've been just leaving the beer under the tap til the foam settles, and then filling it up the rest of the way....But it is no where near as cold as I'd like it to be...even when poured ionto a quality frezzer mug, the beer isn;t as cold as I'd get in a regular glass of beer poured froma bottle stored in my kitchen fridge....so I'm glad to find this info about the thermnostat...

First question....What do you guys use for a thermometer to measure the temp? And what is this trick about using the glass of water to measure it?

2nd question, I noticed that there isn;t much in the way of insulation in the tower, and none at all at the top...I was wondering if it would be a good idea to add insulation, possibly even expanding foam to help keep the beer colder in the tower?

[Scott Zuhse]

Rule number one - beer has gas! If you heat gas it expands, when chilled it contracts. If your beer temperature in the keg is 38 degrees F and the temperature in a Haier tower is 42 F or warmer, guess what happens to the CO2 in the beer at this point? It expands. This is why you have an initial shot of foam - streaky beer and then eventually clear. The reason it clears is because the 38 F beer is chilling the line in the tower. Thus, you can now brag that you have the most expensive beer system in the world - a beer chilled system!

Rule number two - know the gas content of your beer and try to set your pressure so that this level of gas (part of brewer's recipe, has flavor characteristics)is maintained the life of the keg. Post the info and we can tell you exactly what your pressure should. If you can accomplish this, your waste will be minimal as long as you abide by rule number three.

Number Three - Target 38 degrees F 24/7/365 at the keg and all the way to the faucet.

These are not our rules. This is based on the laws of gases and equilibrium. Physics if you will. Why is the Haier kegerator so popular when the majority of the posts concerning kegerator issues name this brand?

Scott Zuhse, Instructor Micro Matic Dispense Institute

[FootBallFan]

I would say that it is so popular because they have used a large chain store (best buy) as a means to get their product to the average joe consumer who doesn;t realize at the time of purchase that there is more to it than just sticking a keg in the thing and plugging it in (uhhh..that woudl be me...LOL) So, now on the back end of things, I'm finding I now nedd some education...So, would further insulating the tower help this situation? Or is there another way to alleviate the probkem?

Also, I was unable to find thermometers on your website via the home page and as such assumed you didn;t sell them....but after doing a google search for a beer thermometer, lo and behold I was sent back to this site...you might want to make things like this more accessible from your front page ... (good for sales)....in any event, I saw this thermometer on your website and wondering if it in itself does the thermometer in the glass of water trick...

Here's the link...

http://www.micromatic.com/draft-keg-...ST1236-31.html

Can't measure the current temp of my unit yet (obviously), but after reading this thread, I set it to it's max cold setting last night, and will adjust the screw once I get something to measure temp with...

I'm currently nursing from a keg of heinekin, set to 12psi CO2, at about 100-200' above sea level...I will be moving in about 6 weeks to NorCal at an altitude of about 4000'...future beers besides heiniken will be fosters, sierra nevada pale ale, Stone Pale Ale, and Stone IPA....

But I do need a thermometer...so if that will meet my needs, I will order it....Will it work to give me an accurate idea of how to set the T-Stat? Or is something else better for what I need?

Thanks mucho!

[topgun3208]

I work in a lab and have access to all the goodies from Fisher Scientific, thermometers traceable to NIST, thats what is in my fridge. and yes u need one to accurately adjust your t'stat. just click on my above post from 12/25 about the Haier t'stat fix. and by the way, Heineken is some tasty stuff on draught eh? will be checking out the other brews u mentioned as well, good luck

"If I had to live my life over, I'd live over a saloon"

[FootBallFan]

HI Topgun....I ordered the liquid filled one from this site earlier tonight...so should have it in a day or two...but I tried filling a freezer mug, then immediately filling a stein, and the stein didn;t foam out, in fact, it was a 'little' lacking in foam,,,wchis explains why I'm not seeing a lot of bubbles in the beer (coming up from the bottom like you woukd expect)...I see 'some' but not a lot...so I'm probably a little flat becasue of the underchilling of the beer...and obviously, the tower is allowing the beer line to go warm...So I'm going to adjust the temp exa tly when I get the thermo, and in the mean time, I've upped the pressure a pound or two..can beer be recarbonated?

I'm thinking I'll get it dialed in pretty well by the next keg...of course that will be at 4000' higher alt than I am now, so I'll probably have to do some more tinkering..In the mean time, I'm mulling over in my head, some methods to keep the line cool in the tower....I'm thinking I may set up a little low voltage aquarium pump to pump cold water through a copper or aluminum line coiled around the line in the beer tower...Maye have it sitting in a couple gallons of water in a container in the fridge with the keg....If that isn't good enough, then maybe add a little condenser coil (like for a tranny cooler), in line with the cooling coil, and a low voltage computer fan to push refridgerated air through it....

Ahhhh... the lengths we go to for the perfect beer!

[Scott Zuhse]

This thermommeter will work fine. Before installing, calibrate in a small tub of ice topped with water then more ice. Should read 32 F after it acclimates fro a few minutes. If not, hold dial while turning adjustment on the back of dial for a 32 F reading. Mount in kererator for easy inspection and out of the way of keg.

Do not insulate the tower. Preferably use flex tube and blower as discribed in this past post:

quote:If your kegerator came with a flex tube directing cold air from the evaporator, you are in good shape. If not, you will have to install a small 15 CFM blower and flex tube and force this up into your tower. Bridge the area from the kegerator to the bottom of the bar with the same size I.D PVC as the tower. Wrap the outside of this with insulation and try not to move the kegerator to much after install. Shove the flex tube into the tower as far as it will go without blocking the end to direct cold air to the shank.

As to the elevation change, increase pressure one pound for each 2000" change in elevation.

Scott Zuhse, Instructor Micro Matic Dispense Institute

[FootBallFan]

Hi Scott,

quote:As to the elevation change, increase pressure one pound for each 2000" change in elevation

Glad you said that..I would have probably tried to reduce the pressure, thinking that because of reduced atmospherinc pressure putting less 'push' on the carbnation to keep it in the ber...


In regards to the blower...how do you get power into the fridge? just drill a hole in the back somewhere? If so, where is it safe to do so?..I', guessing I'd mount a switch on the back so that when I'm ready to start having some berr, I flip on the switch to cool the tower, and then only part of the first draw would foam...then I'd ti=urn the switch off at the end of my "beer enjoyment session"...LOL

[Scott Zuhse]

Check out this thermometer.

Scott Zuhse, Instructor Micro Matic Dispense Institute