Air bubble in beer line

[Beaver]

I'm having a little troble with my home kegger. I switched a 1/2 barrel out that ran awesome & put in a new one and now I get half foam. Everything is new, this is only the 2nd barrel. The only differance is the first barrel was Busch & the new one is Bud. I tightened & lubed everything & checked for bad "o" rings & can't seem to find anything. After you draw a glass half full of foam, you can see the small bubbles coming up from the top of the coupler in the beer line. I ran into this problem at a party before with a jockey box where one barrel ran great & the next one was foamy. It turned out to be a bad seal on the top of the barrel. I switched it to a new one & ran great. This barrel does not seem to have a bad seal on the top of the barrel, causing me to drive myself nuts trying to find the problem. If anyone has any suggestions please let me know.

Thanks
Beaver

[fubarman]

I have the same problem. I recently came home to my parents house and looked at their kegerator, which has no bubbles or empty space in the beer line. We put in a new keg of Stella Artois only after an hour or so of bringing it home, at which time the temp was a bit warm, and still no bubbling in the line. Yet at school with my kegerator, i tap the keg and always get these bubbles and empty space, which i believe is contributing to my "stale" beer. I have changed the elbow shank, beer line, CO2 line, coupler, added an in-line CO2 filter, and took my regulator to be checked for leaks, with a constant pressure of 14PSI and 38F temp. I have no clue what to do and I'm getting very frustrated as you might imagine. It's been going on for over 3 months and I'm still spinning in circles.

P.S. I've been hearing that a blower will provide cold air throughout the tower (assuming that's why the bubbling is occuring), yet are they really practical/necessary with a home kegerator?
Also, could the faucet or CO2 regulator play a role (mine are both around 20 yrs. old) in the bubbling in the line?

[topgun3208]

It seems like a lot of folks in here are having serious foaming issues including me. Im out of answers on this one. my feeling is, if all things are set properly, temp, psi, clean lines,clean glassware etc. there shouldnt be probs. but it is, I am to the point of blaming the brewery, maybe they are kegging before most of the carbonation stops? is this possible, I dont know

"If I had to live my life over, I'd live over a saloon"

[oaksmith]

I've read all the above posts, I would really look at the shank......is it being kept cold....after some pouring does it pour better?

[USMC - Retired]

No foam problems here... Knock on wood.

Semper Fi,
The Gunns

"Beer is proof that god loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin Franklin

[Scott Zuhse]

Beaver, how long did you allow the Bud keg to acclimate to your kegerator? Also, what are your specs on the system? Get back to us.

Fuberman, yes you do need to maintain temperature every inch of the system. Unless you want a beer chilled system, install a blower. Stella is a relatively stable import and should be fine based on your settings. 20 year old regulator? Although most of the parts are metal and hold up well if in a friendly environment, the diaphragm is not metal and normally rots over time.

Topgun, give me your exact specs and brands. Let's get to the bottom of this before you resort to the aluminum can[:0].

Scott Zuhse, Instructor Micro Matic Dispense Institute

[topgun3208]

relax Scott, aint going to be cans, yuck. have a keg of sam adams boston lager (had 2 before this with no probs), temp 38f, psi 12, added a refilled co2 tank, foamed before refill so thats not it. havent been doing anything different and the system and glassware are clean

"If I had to live my life over, I'd live over a saloon"

[topgun3208]

Scott, where do you get the info for temps. and psi from? I have checked out some breweries webpages and cant find a thing on this. would be nice to finetune a fresh keg with the exact temp and psi

"If I had to live my life over, I'd live over a saloon"

[topgun3208]

Thanks Chuck, Ive seen that link before and that calculator thing is neat. I used it for the Yuengling keg last spring and you have heard about that one. here is the gas situation here, I took the regulator down to 6 psi, a little slow pouring but little to no foam, ran it up to 14 psi and it went nuts, cant seem to find a happy medium. going to leave it @ 12 until it blows which im thinking is this weekend.

"If I had to live my life over, I'd live over a saloon"

[Scott Zuhse]

The breweries, as well as we at Micro Matic base pressures on the Zahm Nagel pressure chart. You must gain equilibrium between the gas in the product with the head space in the keg. If you enter 38 degrees F with 2.6 vols into the Kegman's calculator it gives you 12.3 PSI equilibrium. No gas coming out of beer or being absorbed. This is in a keg with no pressure drop such as opening the faucet.

When the faucet is opened a pressure drop occurs. This drop must be compensated by what the industry for years has called push pressure. This equates to two PSI more than equilibrium of 12.3 or 14.2. Call it 14 PSIG and control the flow with the beer line. Will this pressure allow the beer to absorb excess CO2 gas. Absolutely! Enough to cause dispensing problems or taste issue with in three to four days? No. Especially with as much beer that Topgun and USMC Retired drink!

We have made a career (job security) out of too many techs out there thinking they are successful simply by trying to get the beer to come out of the faucet clear. We have tasted flat beer, over carbonated beer, beer that we could not drink because it smells so bad all come out of the faucet clear. The day you can accomplish clarity and a quality presentation the life of a keg will be the day you can declare success.

This is why we are so adamant about temperature, pressure, restriction, leak testing and cleanliness.

If you truly would like to accomplish success easily, push your ale/lager @ 22 PSIG with a 60% CO2 / 40% Nitrogen blend.

Scott Zuhse, Instructor Micro Matic Dispense Institute

[USMC - Retired]

Hey mark, I think Scott is saying were a couple of drunks..... How would he know, I've never seen him at any of the meetings!

Semper Fi,
The Gunns

"Beer is proof that god loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin Franklin

[topgun3208]

quote:Originally posted by USMC - Retired

Hey mark, I think Scott is saying were a couple of drunks..... How would he know, I've never seen him at any of the meetings!

Semper Fi,
The Gunns

"Beer is proof that god loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin Franklin

I would love to get to get together with you and Scott and crack a fresh keg as long as my wife isnt around lol [xx(]

"If I had to live my life over, I'd live over a saloon"

[USMC - Retired]

You, me, Scott and a keg? Sounds dangerous... for the keg!

Semper Fi,
The Gunns

"Beer is proof that god loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin Franklin

[Scott Zuhse]

Been there, done that, paid cash! I never said anything about how you drink. I focus more on making sure that the enormous amout of beer that goes through your system is the best it can be.

Scott Zuhse, Instructor Micro Matic Dispense Institute

[Sudz]

This may be a n00b question but what's with the CO2/N blend? Will it work better for all types of beer? Currenly I've got a Sammys in one keg and Ultra (it's the wife's in the other running from the same 100% CO2 tank.

With this blend can I crank up the PSI with no foamy problems?

[USMC - Retired]

quote:Originally posted by mmcscott

Especially with as much beer that Topgun and USMC Retired drink!

Scott Zuhse, Instructor Micro Matic Dispense Institute

quote:Originally posted by mmcscott

I never said anything about how you drink. I focus more on making sure that the enormous amout of beer that goes through your system is the best it can be.

Scott Zuhse, Instructor Micro Matic Dispense Institute

Care to revise your defense counselor? And when you say "the enormous amount of beer that goes through your system", do you mean our digestive systems or our Kegerators?

Semper Fi,
The Gunns

"Beer is proof that god loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin Franklin

[topgun3208]

quote:Originally posted by Sudz

This may be a n00b question but what's with the CO2/N blend? Will it work better for all types of beer? Currenly I've got a Sammys in one keg and Ultra (it's the wife's in the other running from the same 100% CO2 tank.

With this blend can I crank up the PSI with no foamy problems?

that is for Guinness stout and possibly a few other brews. domestics and most craft brews run 100% co2

"If I had to live my life over, I'd live over a saloon"

[Scott Zuhse]

Absolutely! But it must be a 60% CO2 / 40% N gas blend. Do not use the crap that is available in the a cylinder. It will allow the beer to go flat.

Scott Zuhse, Instructor Micro Matic Dispense Institute

[Beaver]

Scott Zuhse,
Sorry, it's been awhile since I've checked the site. Dealing with the air bubbles still until I finished the 1/2 barrel. I just got a new 1/4 barrel of Bud light today & hoped for the best but the bubbles are still present. Since I wrote the first post I did a little research on the specs of a kegger system. My specs on the system are 18' of 1/4" hose ( inside the fridge ), 3' of vertical lift from the center of the barrel to the faucet, 12 psi ( which I changed to try to get better flow with no luck ) a glass of water inside the fridge is 33.5 degrees & when it comes out of the faucet is 38.6 degrees in a room temp glass .I just cleaned the lines & lubed/ checked the "o" rings on everything. I'm starting to wonder if the lines need to be special beer lines other than hardware store lines? The supply line leaves the side of the fridge inside a 1" pvc tube that connects to the shank with clamps, I thought it would be like a refridgerated conduit. The total distance of the "conduit" is 2 1/2'. It seems like pin size air bubbles form in the line leaving voids in the entire line leading to foamy beer. I'm hoping that you can help me with my problem so I can enjoy draft beer at home!!

Thanks
Beaver

[Scott Zuhse]

There is either mixed gas 25% CO2 / 75% Nitrogen available in a cylinder or blended gas on-site where you can customize the ratio to any dispense situation.

The mixed gas in a cylinder is reserved for stout or nitrogenated beers were if you applied it to your brands it would change the flavor (flat).

The blended gas on-site system is rather pricey for home use. But if your budget can afford it, could be used at correct ratio at higher pressures to overcome inefficiencies in your system.

If you have a direct draw system such as a kegerator, you probably would be fine balancing the system with 100% CO2. Beer Temperature @ 38 F, 14 PSIG with between 5-6 feet of 3/16" ID line if you are at sea level

Scott Zuhse, Instructor Micro Matic Dispense Institute

[Beaver]

Scott,
You mentioned Beer Temperature @ 38 F, 14 PSIG with between 5-6 feet of 3/16" ID line would work, but my shank is 1/4". I first started with 6' & then added more to get to 18' of 1/4" line to get the psi up. Does this sound right? I still don't understand why there are bubbles coming up from the keg itself into the line. Is it because the psi is to low & the beer is releasing gas into the line??


Jeff

[Scott Zuhse]

Shank size has nothing to do with tubing diameter. The tubing found at hardware stores may not be "brewery approved" resulting in flavor and / or dispensing issues.

Is this "conduit" insulated on the outside and do you have any method of forcing cold air into this area from your refrigerator?

For Bud Light at 38 F, use 14 PSIG and again, start with six feet of 3/16" ID line and trim back in four inch increments until desired flow rate is acquired. After changing the line, pour two beers in a glass. Dump the first and take the temperature of the second with a calibrated thermometer. This should be the temperature of the beer from the keg. Adjust to 38.

Scott Zuhse, Instructor Micro Matic Dispense Institute

[Beaver]

I ordered some new brewery approved tubing last night. The "conduit" is insulated on the outside with black pipe insulation. I have no means of pumping cold air into the conduit. I figured that having the conduit in side the fridge, some of the cold air in the fridgewould make it's way in the conduit. I relize that hot air rises, but thought that it would be better than just leaving the supply line by itself. The whole kegger is in an unfinished part of the basement. I will start with the tubing & hope for the best.

Thanks
Beaver