Made adjustments... now stuck with foam.

[TheSlavik]

Hey guys,

So I broke the rules... I tried to fix something that wasn't broken... and now its broken.

I am running Guinness in the Danby, using the 100k resistor, with the temp probe extended and mounted on the top of the kegerator. I had my guinness pouring at 34 degrees, at 32 psi, slightly lower than Guinness recommends... and everything was PERFECT. Good amount of head, great temperature.

So... one evening, after not pouring a pint for a few days, my beer line froze. No big deal, the keg wasn't frozen. So, I thought this would be a good time to install my new liquid thermometer inside of my kegerator. I figured having the door open for 30 minutes would thaw the line, allow time to install the thermometer and voila. So... stupidly, I took the keg out of the fridge for about 30 minutes, and turned the gas up to 38psi... what Guinness recommends (even though there was no problem before.)

I noticed my temps went up to 42 degrees later that night (about what Guinness recommends) and all I get is foam... nothing else. I turned my gas back down to 32, purged the gas line and the tap at the keg, let sit for 48 hours, and chilled the beer temp down to about 37 degrees. Still foam.

Any ideas?

[Scott Zuhse]

You are using mixed gas - right?

[TheSlavik]

Yes I am. It is not the 75%/25% Guinness mix, its 70%/30%. Its is all I can get here... but at the same time... it is what all the bars in town use for their guinness. I had it perfect before... but them I went and changed things. I noticed my pour speed has increased... but that was obviously due to the pressure increase. I let the whole system sit for 2 days since I dropped the pressure... but still the same foam and pour speed.

[TheSlavik]

And it is definatly the mixed gas... the foam is so dense after sitting, I can turn the glass upside down and nothing moves and inch.

[Scott Zuhse]

60%N/40% CO2??? If so, you have probably over carbonated the Guinness. The nitro beer has little CO2 (1.2 v/v) and will absorb excess CO2 easily.

[TheSlavik]

Originally Posted by Scott Zuhse

60%N/40% CO2??? If so, you have probably over carbonated the Guinness. The nitro beer has little CO2 (1.2 v/v) and will absorb excess CO2 easily.

Sorry, that was a typo, I am using 70/30 mix.

[BrewGuru]

Have you cleaned your stout faucet's restriction plate and your lines since the freeze up? If you've gotten any protein agglomeration from the freeze up, and it is likely you have, you may have build up.

The same effect that causes the phenomenon known as "Chill Haze" causes proteins to build up, as flavonoids break down, they allow protein molecules to build and eventually to come out of solution entirely, this can get in your lines, mess with your flow, and wreak havoc on a stout faucet.

Clean everything thoroughly, clean your lines physically and with line cleaner and let everything settle out and try again. Additionally, the temperature swings and gas in and out of solution with those temperature changes will take some time to settle out.

If any portion of the beer in the keg got frozen you might have permanently foamy beer, depending on how much the freeze penetrated, it can cause foam problems for the remainder of the keg.

Though your beer may never be the same. you can try this, vent your keg, remove it from your your system and agitate it fairly aggressively, set it upright and vent again, note how much pressure you have, agitate it again, vent, and then set the keg upside down, hook up your coupler and re-pressurize to your drive pressure, if possible do recondition with the keg as cold as possible so that more of your mix goes back into solution, stabilize the system and try again.

Your problem may not need a solution as drastic as that, check all the other elements of your system first.

EDIT:
I just re-read and saw the comment about the foam, none of it settles out as beer? You may indeed have a protein problem, try cleaning and the other tips, and if you can't balance it out and get good pours, report back.

[TheSlavik]

Thanks for that info. I get about 2 milimeters of beer in the bottom of the glass after 3 minutes of sitting. Practically nothing. I took a "foam temperature" reading last night and its at 39 degrees. I set my fridge to what I had it set to before temperature wise... going to try to get it back down to the 32-34 degrees it was at before. As well, I think I already mentioned I dropped the pressure back down to 32 PSI.

I dont know if it makes a difference, but all the equipment is new. It's only had beer in it for about 3 weeks now.

As for the beer freezing in the keg, when I took it from the fridge and rocked it, there was definatly plenty of fluid, but I could here what sounde dlike some slush or ice floating on top.

Before doing anything drastic, I will wait it out another day or two, see how it acts chilled back down to the temperature it was at when all was good.

UPDATE: This morning, poured a pint and now after a few minutes, a slow cascade does begin and I get about 2.5"s of fluid in a 16 ounce pint. The temperature is still 38 - 39 degrees.

[TheSlavik]

Still having issues, and I am getting pretty pissed off. I can get more than an inch or two of beer into a glass after 8 minutes of waiting. Ive got the pressure at 32 psi, and I have tried all the way down to 25 psi, and up to 42 psi. Temps ranging from 32 degrees to 42 degrees. Ive burped the keg and bled pressure, purged the lines, and still nothing.

The beer is coming out of the tap as foam. Its going into the faucet as black beer, but out at pure foam.

Anyone have any more ideas? My next step it to clean the lines... even though its all brand new and has only had about 20 pints drawn from it.

Im getting pretty close to returning everything for a refund...

[TheSlavik]

just took the stout faucet off, and apart. The restrictor disc is inside.It has 6 holes and I can see through them. It looks brand new. I Did'nt see anything else in the faucet, but I soaked it in Beer line cleaner anyways. Will try this then the next step is cleaning the lines.

I really hope I didnt ruin $300 of beer.

[TAPMAN]

70/30 mix is too much CO2 for 32-33 degrees. In Ireland , they use a 70/30 mix, the kegs are not stored as cold as we store them but the beer is run through a flash chiller for serving. Because we keep our beer storage temp. colder , they reccomend the 75/25 mix @38-42 degrees. The colder the beer, the more CO2 it will absorb. Your Guinness is overcarbonated. Tapman

[TheSlavik]

Ok, what is the process (if any) of removing the excess carbonation. Is it the shaking and rooling of the keg and purging of the pressure until flat?

[joepizi]

Originally Posted by TheSlavik

I really hope I didnt ruin $300 of beer.

Where are you buying your kegs for 300$?

[TheSlavik]

Edmonton, ALberta, Canada.

$285 + $30 Keg Deposit + 5% GST.

[TheSlavik]

OK, so I pulled my keg from the Danby, so begin the de-cardonization... and realize the keg is frozen solid...which I noticed after I un-coupled the tap, the valve was frozen open so I got a small leak from the valve.

Anyways, what should I do now? I realize it needs to be thawed... after only 10 minutes out of the fridge, I had an 1/8" of ice all around the keg...

One I thaw... what should be the hook up process?

[TheSlavik]

anyone?...

[BrewGuru]

You'll need to let the keg thaw for two days, it should be done by now if you took it out of your cooler or shut it off, out is better as the insulation will keep the cold in.

Vent the pressure and agitate to ensure that all the beer is thawed, re-pressurize to proper balance and set the keg to sit very still and get back down to temp and settle. This should take about two days. At this point you will need to reduce your drive pressure to a couple psi and slowly blow out whatever proteins dropped out of solution due to the freeze and settled at the base of the keg, pour slowly until the line runs clear - preferably do this with a standard faucet... Your Guinness may have more clarity than it did before, though I can't predict the effect on that particular beer because I've never frozen a keg of Guinness before.

Then you can increase your drive pressure, put your stout faucet back on and and hopefully start pouring proper pints!

Good luck!

[TheSlavik]

Hey guys, thanks for the responses!

I thawed the kes for two days... and pretty much followed the same path that BrewGuru layed out. Ive taken out my 100k resistor.... and left my temp probe that I extended at the top of the fridge, right near the door. I think the combination of moving the probe all the way up and forward, AND having the 100k was what froze her up. Im now pouring proper pints again. The beer is a little bit flatter, and the head dissapears before I finish the pint... but hey... at least $300 of beer isnt a total loss.

Currently, my beer is pouring bang on what the front of the Danby is reading... as well, I have a SureTemp liquid thermometer inside, an inch away from the probe... it too is reading what the beer is pouring at, and what the Danby says it is.

After some tome has passed, and if the readings stay the same, I will report back... and let you all know that I have potentially found the "sweet spot" in the Danby of where to move the probe to get the actual proper readouts.

Thanks!