Beer Forum

mikeythethumb · #1 (**permalink**) 10-21-2005, 09:49 AM

Totally new to this game, but didn't see any postings that exactly matched my situation. I got a Haier kegerator from Best Buy that came with the full set-up (top-mounted draft tower, C02 supplies, etc). Being a total newbie, I bought myself a 1/4 keg of Yeungling Lager and didn't put it in the fridge right away - just let it sit in my basement for a couple weeks assuming keg beer was like cans or bottles and could last without refridgeration.

I cooled the what now I know must be completely spoiled and flat keg to around 38 degrees, tapped it and turned on the C02. What I got was a super slow pour of nearly 100% foam every time no matter what pressure I set the C02 regulator to. I'm definately going to get a fresh keg and try again by immediately refridgerating, but just to be sure I don't have any other issues I wanted to know...

Why was it pouring so slow? The pour rate was exactly the same no matter what pressure I set it at - even experimentally at the highest pressure I could get. Shouldn't the pour get faster as the pressure is increased (even if it's not optimal for the beer at high pressures)?

Help!

Scott Zuhse · #2 (**permalink**) 10-21-2005, 10:27 AM

Hopefully their are not any chunks from the beer stuck somewhere in the system. Disassemble the faucet and keg coupler and inspect all parts for blockage. Be certain that their are not any blockages at the pressure inlet on the coupler. Inspect the fittings on the beer line as well. Clean all parts thoroughy. When you receive your new keg, place it in the kegbox ASAP and allow to aclimate. Attempt to adjust the box to 38 F liquid temperature using calibrated thermometer. Set pressure at 14 PSIG after checking pressure side for leaks. Keep us informed[8D]

Scott Zuhse, Instructor Micro Matic Dispense Institute

USMC - Retired · #3 (**permalink**) 10-21-2005, 10:36 AM

My guess would be that since you were pouring straight foam allot of the gas was released around the bumbles thus not building the pressure to push the foam out any faster. Make sure you clean your lines and components out real good before putting the fresh keg on, no sense in compounding your troubles. Also, let the keg sit in the fridge for at least 3 hours before tapping, overnight would even be better, then if your liquid temp is 38 degrees, set your pressure to 14 PSI. When pouring a beef make sure you pull the handle full open and let it pour to about ½ inch from the top the close the tap in one quick motion. Given everything else is good to go, you should have a perfect tap. Good luck!

Semper Fi,
The Gunns

"Beer is proof that god loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin Franklin

mikeythethumb · #4 (**permalink**) 10-21-2005, 02:31 PM

Thanks guys. Just brought a new keg home and immediately put it in the fridge untapped to sit overnight. I'm going to clean my system out good and try to tap this one tomorrow morning. I'll let you know how it turns out.

- Mikey

BigStein · #5 (**permalink**) 10-22-2005, 07:55 AM

I never worry about waiting to tap a keg. I have brought them home, wrestled them up a set of stairs and set them up and tapped immediately and never have more than 1/2 glass of foma. A new keg is a time of celebration, no way can I wait to tap the thing.

topgun3208 · #6 (**permalink**) 10-22-2005, 06:48 PM

u sound like me stein, my worst fears are blowing a keg late on a fri or sat nite and a lil too tipsy to drive to pick up a new one. thats why I keep a 12 pk of something in there just in case that happens

Stefan · #7 (**permalink**) 10-23-2005, 06:56 AM

Although I am also new to the game, I also have been waiting a few hours befor tapping. But, I let it sit in the kegerater for those few hours. So far, So good. But I wish I had a cooled tower because there is always foam. Even if the next beer is just 10 minutes later. But if I just dump the few ounces of foam at the beginning of the pour, I have no issues.

Stefan

BigStein · #8 (**permalink**) 10-23-2005, 01:42 PM

You can always put a blower in to cool that tower. As for waiting to tap, of course the keg should go right into the fridge but, really, I see no reason to wait. I have seen no long term problems with tapping right away.

Scott Zuhse · #9 (**permalink**) 10-24-2005, 08:30 PM

Major issue if your system is set up for 38 degrees liquid and you try to tap a 42 degree keg. Hopefully your source for kegs knows the value of temperature and their kegs' temp. is the same as your set up. and you do not have to drive to far to get their.

Scott Zuhse, Instructor Micro Matic Dispense Institute

Stefan · #10 (**permalink**) 10-25-2005, 03:51 AM

Quote:

quote:Originally posted by mmcscott

Major issue if your system is set up for 38 degrees liquid and you try to tap a 42 degree keg. Hopefully your source for kegs knows the value of temperature and their kegs' temp. is the same as your set up. and you do not have to drive to far to get their.

Yeah, but what choice do a lot of us have? I live in "the sticks". So pretty much any place I go will be a drive. But to go someplace with a good selection I have to drive 1.5 hours (Exton, Pa.) And then how am I supposed to tell them how cool to keep their fridge?

Stefan

USMC - Retired · #11 (**permalink**) 10-25-2005, 05:55 AM

Real simple Stefan, tell them if they don't keep thier beer chilled until time of purchase that you will buy somewhere else. Once you buy keep cold until you get it home, if you have to travel a long way in warm weather, put it in a bucket and ice it down. Once you get it home and in your kegerator let itt sit overnight to allow the keg to cool to the temp of your system before tapping that way your preasure/temp calculations are right on. The point Scott was making is that if you tap your keg right after you put it in and the temp is not the temp you made your calculations for, you will have foam. Most folks would then try to adjust the system to fix it and just compound the problem. Best answer is to be a bit patient and give the keg a chance to cool to the temp it will be held at for the remainder of it's short sweet life.

Semper Fi,
The Gunns

"Beer is proof that god loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin Franklin

mikeythethumb · #12 (**permalink**) 10-25-2005, 07:38 AM

OK, I got a new 1/4 keg (Miller Lite), put it in the fridge immediately after getting it home and waited about 5 hours before tapping (I cleaned the whole line and components before doing so). I set my C02 pressure to 12PSI and gave it a try. This time, I'm not having super slow pour speed issues like with the spoiled Yeungling - seems to be coming out pretty steady (if anything maybe a little fast now). However, foam still seems to be an issue AND the beer tastes slightly off. Not a good crisp flavor and hardly any bubbling action in the glass.

I had not purchased a liquid thermometer yet so I got one yesterday and put it in a glass of water sitting on the inside floor of the kegerator. I read it this morning at 40 degrees F. I'm going to try and get the temp down a couple more notches, but I find it hard to believe that two degrees higher than optimal are making that much of a difference. Just more rookie naivete?

Thanks - Mikey

Scott Zuhse · #13 (**permalink**) 10-25-2005, 04:36 PM

Mikey, how long is the 3/16" I.D. beer line between the keg coupler and the back of the shank, did you calibrate your themometer in ice water and did you check for any pressure leaks? Yes, two degrees does make a difference. I realize that these procedures may seem uneccessary and detailed. But if you truly want to enjoy draught beer, you must know the exact temperature, thus correct applied pressure and then correct length of 3/16" for flow speed. Never use pressure to control the flow. Plus, if you have pressure leaks, you will have a difficult time setting correct pressure.

Scott Zuhse, Instructor Micro Matic Dispense Institute

mikeythethumb · #14 (**permalink**) 10-25-2005, 06:17 PM

The beer line is about 56" from the coupler to the back of the faucet, the final foot or so being inside the top-mounted draft tower. I have no pressure leaks.

I bought a liquid thermometer (analog), that I guess am not sure can even be calibrated - and if it could I wouldn't know what to do. Sounds like I need to buy another thermometer now. Can someone point me to one online so I can see what it is I need?

In the meantime, should I untap this keg? I'm so uncertain of all these variables that I'm afraid somehow I'm now ruining this keg too (like now it will be flat beer no matter what I do). Sorry for all the questions, just getting a little frustrated experimenting with $50 kegs

Thanks for all your help.

- Mikey

USMC - Retired · #15 (**permalink**) 10-25-2005, 08:09 PM

http://shopping.msn.com/specs/shp/?i...amp;fullDesc=1
Definately untap the keg till your sure about your temp. good luck!

Semper Fi,
The Gunns

"Beer is proof that god loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin Franklin

mikeythethumb · #16 (**permalink**) 11-02-2005, 09:21 AM

Well I got my liquid temp down to 38 degrees, pressure is still 12PSI, line is still about 56" long and I have no pressure leaks. My Miller Light tastes pretty good and I think is pouring pretty much fine (decent speed, not too much foam, etc.), but still seems to not be as crisp and fresh as I would expect.

You know my brief history with this new keg and it doesn't seem like I did anything too out of the ordinary with this one to cause it to go flat (other than having it refridgerated at 40 degrees for a week instead of 38). Final question...

What could cause beer in a new keg to be flat or semi-flat if all the factors above are correct? Other than just getting a bad keg, is it pretty much impossible to "make" a keg go flat in my system?

Thanks - Mikey

BigStein · #17 (**permalink**) 11-02-2005, 03:37 PM

You guys are the pros but you seem a little uptight on the temp. thing to me. I transport the keg probably 20 minutes directly from the brewery or another local supplier and tap it right away, with minimal (maybe 1/2 glass) foam. I guess the temp. must be real close as I have gone through 5 kegs over the summer and fall and never have much problem.

Scott Zuhse · #18 (**permalink**) 11-02-2005, 10:30 PM

Two issues. Old beer recieved from the retailer or a bad seal in the keg where the beer degassed as it was in storage. Determine the coding system on the keg used by Miller for dating the beer and try to select the freshest keg possible at the retail outlet. As to the seal, luck of the draw. Does not happen to often.

Scott Zuhse, Instructor Micro Matic Dispense Institute

mikeythethumb · #19 (**permalink**) 11-03-2005, 07:16 AM

OK. I'll keep the faith and hope my next keg is better. Thanks for all your help. You may hear from me again

- Mikey

Scott Zuhse · #20 (**permalink**) 11-03-2005, 02:45 PM

Mikey, Be certain to calibrate your thermometer. It is quite simple. Use a large glass such as a pint and fill with ice. Pour water on top of ice and then add more ice. Place the thermometer stem in the ice water and it should read 32 degrees F. If you can not move the pointer on the analog thermometer (normally located on the back of the face and is in the shape of a nut), fudge whatever degree(s) is necessary when taking a beer temperature based on what the thermometer was reading in the ice water. Easiest method for taking the temperature is to pour a beer and chug it and then pour another in the same glass and take your temperature. If your thermometer has not been used for other temp. issues such with body parts[xx(], drink the second beer!

Scott Zuhse, Instructor Micro Matic Dispense Institute

kdressler · #21 (**permalink**) 11-08-2005, 08:53 AM

The delicate balance between CO2 concentration, temperature and pressure is not very intuitive and a little tricky to understand.[?]

I tried to write an easily understandable explanation.

www.turbotap.com/HomeUser/

Let me know how it reads. I'd be interested to hear your feedback.

"Science pouring perfect beer"

mikeythethumb · #22 (**permalink**) 12-05-2005, 03:09 PM

Just wanted to check back and give a post script. My distributor took back that 1/4 of Miller Lite. He tried it with a picnic pump when I returned it and said he thought it tasted fine. It's possible that I became less than objective on it after a while and it may have been an OK keg. Regardless, he gave me credit for it, I got a 1/2 of PBR which worked and tasted fine. I followed it up with a 1/2 of Labbatt Blue Light which was also great.

Thanks for everyone's help!

- Mikey