FOAM -- Another question

[jdgstat]

Let me start by saying that I've read the other numerous foam questions, but I can't see an answer to my situation.

Every beer I pour has at least half foam. The first pour is 2/3 foam to 1/3 beer. A second pour has half foam. The pour is VERY fast. I pull the full way out and it's done in around 2 seconds (mostly foam, of course).

Here are my specs:

Brand new Danby DKC645BLS.
15.5 gallon Michelob Ultra
11 PSI (I've tried lowering 8 and raising to 15)
36 - 37 degrees on the outside of the Danby
37 - 38 degrees on a liquid thermostat in a cup of water inside the kegerator
Atlanta area (some posts asked for elevation)
Lines are the standard lines that came with the Danby -- no changes yet

Any suggestions to help get a "normal" head on on my draws would be greatly appreciated!

Jon

[CableGuy]

Most likely problem is a temperature differential between the tower and the kegerator itself. There's an entire thread dedicated to improving the Danby units. Have you tried looking there? Also, if the beer is pouring too fast you may need to run a longer beer line (just coil the excess on top of the keg). I use around 8ft of 3/16ID and it works great. The added resistance of the longer line will help slow the beer down.

[rdam65]

Hi I had the same problem with my summit kegerator. I tried adjusting pressure and temp but still no help. But then I talked with someone and went for a long shot, I replaced the tap faucet and that did it. I haven't had any more problems with a lot of foam. My temp still the same and pressure the same. Hope this helps you. PS the original equipment for my unit didn't work with after market faucets so I had to get the whole faucet assy aftermarket not summit and it worked fine.

[jdgstat]

Thanks for the responses. I've read:

Danby Kegerator Improvements

Is this the thread you were referring to? If so, my temperature is fine, so I'm wondering if your thoughts on the temperature difference between the tower and the keg is the problem, or if rdam65's suggestion of a new faucet would help?

Where is the best place to buy longer tubes and faucets from? I'd be willing to throw a little money at it just to see if it fixes it.

I don't see a premade 8' line, so guessing I buy http://www.micromatic.com/draft-keg-...-pid-547C.html and put clamps on the ends? Would longer than 8' help or hinder the situation?

Thanks for the replies folks!

[bard]

Do you have a local home brew store? I was able to buy the length of line I wanted right off the spool.

[jdgstat]

I don't have one that I know of, but I can check around.

I just rechecked my temp, and I think I found the problem. When I have the glass of water at the bottom of the Danby it showed 37 - 38 degrees, but when I put the cup of water ON TOP of the keg itself, it showed 40.4 degrees.

Soooo, what's my best option to lower the overall temperature of the kegerator? I'm a computer guy, but I have no clue on electrical/rigging things.

Also, I had the kegerator put in my bar when I had my basement finished, so that may limit my options.

Thanks again!

[CableGuy]

Originally Posted by jdgstat

I don't have one that I know of, but I can check around.

I just rechecked my temp, and I think I found the problem. When I have the glass of water at the bottom of the Danby it showed 37 - 38 degrees, but when I put the cup of water ON TOP of the keg itself, it showed 40.4 degrees.

Soooo, what's my best option to lower the overall temperature of the kegerator? I'm a computer guy, but I have no clue on electrical/rigging things.

Also, I had the kegerator put in my bar when I had my basement finished, so that may limit my options.

Thanks again!

Well I just got done typing a pretty lengthy reply but got logged off before I had a chance to post it, so this one's going to be fairly brief.
-Check the air temp inside the tower. It's probably way too warm. I not only had to install a blower to keep the tower cool, but also a fan to circulate the air inside the kegerator itself. Warm air was rising to the top and causing foam issues.
-Start with around 8ft of line and gradually shorten it if the pour is too slow for your liking. I bought the line, clamps, and crimp tool from here. You could use screw type hose clamps from the hardware store if you're on a budget, but I prefer the crimp type.
-Make sure your CO2 regulator is set to the correct pressure for the temperature and type of beer you are drinking and don't be tempted to run it lower to avoid foam. This will result in a flat keg, and nobody likes that!

I've attached some pictures of my setup. Hopefully they will help give you a few ideas. If you're not confident that you can install a blower and/or fan safely, then definitely leave the task to someone else. As far as the "rigging" side of things is concerned, some amount of creativity will definitely be required here. Every kegerator is different and it would be tough for me or anyone else to tell you *exactly* how to do it. Don't be shy if you have any more questions, everyone here tends to be pretty helpful.

[jdgstat]

Thanks for the response Cableguy. And yes, everyone's been very helpful, especially to a noob such as myself. My father in law can fix anything, so if I can get all the parts necessary, he'll help me rig it.

Now, question time:
So in the last picture, is the blower the thing on the left (remember, I'm a noob!)?
Obviously the fan is in the middle, but what's the red thing on the right?
And how does the power come through? Did you drill a hole behind the fan/blower?
I see the blower sends the air out through the faucet. Do you have to keep the cap of the faucet off all the time?
Lastly, can you buy all these parts here? Or is there a kit for these things? I can get a fan from a computer like the one in the picture, but it has a different type of connection.

Or... Does anyone know someone local in Atlanta that does this type thing for a fee? HAHA!

***edit*** Also, I have full access to the back of the Danby as it goes into the next bar cabinet (which is where I store the CO2 tank), but the top is covered with tile (there is a gap between the tile and top of the kegerator for air flow).

Thanks again, and sorry for all these questions.

[jdgstat]

I've spent the better part of the day reading thread after thread, and I'm wondering if the resistor mod would fix my temperature/foam problem.

Copying a post:
dbigrunner Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 9

Got it!
--------------------------------------------------------------------------Well, I soldered the reistor just like the photo showed...It worked great!!!!

I set the digital temp on the front of the danby to 39 last night...woke up this morning and the t-stat I had in the fridge said the ambient temp was 33degrees...poured a glass ( a lot less foam on the first pull only about 2 inches) and stuck my liquid thermometer in it, read @ 36 degrees! PERFECT. I didn't add the fan or pvc pipe or anything.

Soldering Iron: 7.99 @ radio shack
Pack of 5 33k ohm reistors: .99 cents
10 Mintues to shave the plastic off the wires and solder the ends together
2" of electrical tape: free

Ice cold Fat Tire with .5 inch head....

PRICELESS

Couldn't have done it without all your tinkering and experiences that have been logged here.

Thanks agian!!
Darren
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Would this likely by my first step in lessening my foam? Or would installing a Brewers Edge Controller II help more?
What exactly does the resistor accomplish?
I'm not really concerned with putting some money into it. I'm more concerned with ease of installation as I'm far from a "handyman".

[cubby_swans]

I'm a computer guy with no electrical skills myself, and my blower mod was simple. In my Danby, I used a PC power supply, and it's fan, for my blower. I didn't see the need for a seperate fan, I just left one or two of the holes in the power supply un-caulked to create circulation in the lower part of the box. The cap on the tower stays on, that way the air returns to the unit from the tower and also increases circulation.

I spent less thatn $15 on my 'blower' mod. Look at the last few posts in this thread.....

can I use this blower to cool my tower?

And the resistor basically changes the signal from the temp sensor, allowing the unit to continue to cool beyond what you have it 'set' to. The temp sensor is basically inaccurate, which is why it won't actually get as cold as you set it to out of the box. If Danby had allowed us to set it to something like 32 or 33, it would probably get to 37 or 38. Or if Danby had simply made their sensor accurate, no resistor would be necessary. Lunkhead, from this site, has determined that using a 150K resistor in his unit makes the display accurate and allows the unit to cool 1-2 degrees below 'stock' settings, meaning that if it shows 37, it IS 37. But each unit likely has a different level of sensor accuract, so a 150K resistor might not get your Danby cold enough. I would stick with the 33k resistor. You're sure to get it cold enough that way, just realize your temp readout on the unit will be nowhere near correct. You'll have to play with that. You might find that that a setting of 40 on your Danby will actually cool it off to 34 or 35.

[jdgstat]

Thanks for the response Cubby. It sounds like I need to do 3 things, but I want to do them one at a time so I can see the results individually:

1) Move the Danby temperature as close to the front and top as I can. On the new Danby models (I bought mine 3 months ago), where is the sensor? How can I tell where it is from looking at it?

2) Solder a single 33k resistor to cool the unit further. Buy this at Radio Shack, etc. Where am I putting this resistor? How? The diagram I saw in a different thread, but it was totally greek to me.

3) Setup a blower to cool the tube to lessen foam, such as the one Lunkhead posted about. I'll do this once I see the results from the first 2 mods.

I'm at work now, so I can't look around, but I reallly want this thing working without 90% foam for a party on the 31st, so I'm frantic for answers.

Thanks!

[cubby_swans]

Originally Posted by jdgstat

Thanks for the response Cubby. It sounds like I need to do 3 things, but I want to do them one at a time so I can see the results individually:

1) Move the Danby temperature as close to the front and top as I can. On the new Danby models (I bought mine 3 months ago), where is the sensor? How can I tell where it is from looking at it?

2) Solder a single 33k resistor to cool the unit further. Buy this at Radio Shack, etc. Where am I putting this resistor? How? The diagram I saw in a different thread, but it was totally greek to me.

3) Setup a blower to cool the tube to lessen foam, such as the one Lunkhead posted about. I'll do this once I see the results from the first 2 mods.

I'm at work now, so I can't look around, but I reallly want this thing working without 90% foam for a party on the 31st, so I'm frantic for answers.

Thanks!

1)Your sensor is behind the grill plate on the LEFT lower wall of the inside of the unit, as you are looking into the unit. It just pries off. The sensor wire only stretches out about 6 - 8 inches, so I just pulled mine as far to the front as it would go, and electrical taped it to the wall in one of the railing recesses, so I didn't break it when putting in a keg.

2)you can unplug the sensor wire. You'll see where once you've completed step one. I was able to insert each side of the resistor into the female end of the plug, and then plug back in the sensor. That way you've got the resistor installed with no soldering. Othersise just seperate the two wires coming from the sensor, and solder one resistor lead to each of the wires. Basically bridging them.

[jdgstat]

Originally Posted by cubby_swans

1)Your sensor is behind the grill plate on the LEFT lower wall of the inside of the unit, as you are looking into the unit. It just pries off. The sensor wire only stretches out about 6 - 8 inches, so I just pulled mine as far to the front as it would go, and electrical taped it to the wall in one of the railing recesses, so I didn't break it when putting in a keg.

2)you can unplug the sensor wire. You'll see where once you've completed step one. I was able to insert each side of the resistor into the female end of the plug, and then plug back in the sensor. That way you've got the resistor installed with no soldering. Othersise just seperate the two wires coming from the sensor, and solder one resistor lead to each of the wires. Basically bridging them.

Thanks again!

1) Can I extent the sensor wire by soldering something longer? 6" to 8" won't take it that far forward or higher, which seems to be my main focus.

2) So in 1 and 2, I'm modding the same wire? Moving it up/forward in step 1, and putting the resistor in during step 2? Or will this make a whole lot more sense once I open up the grill plate?

[cubby_swans]

Originally Posted by jdgstat

Thanks again!

1) Can I extent the sensor wire by soldering something longer? 6" to 8" won't take it that far forward or higher, which seems to be my main focus.

2) So in 1 and 2, I'm modding the same wire? Moving it up/forward in step 1, and putting the resistor in during step 2? Or will this make a whole lot more sense once I open up the grill plate?

yeah, you can extend it by soldering in some extra wire. And yep, those are the same wires you're attaching the resistor to.

[jdgstat]

Originally Posted by cubby_swans

yeah, you can extend it by soldering in some extra wire. And yep, those are the same wires you're attaching the resistor to.

Thanks. What gauge wire would you extend it with? Or do you think just moving the wire up/forward the 6" to 8" is enough?

[cubby_swans]

Originally Posted by jdgstat

Thanks. What gauge wire would you extend it with? Or do you think just extending the wire the 6" to 8" is enough?

the length I had worked fine for me, but mine was already cooling my beer down to 39, so I didn't need much along with the resistor. I would try it with what's there, first, and if then add to that if you think you need to. Then I guess I'd try to match the guage with what's there. A small guage, like maybe 28? Not sure what's there, or if it matters, even, I'm no electrician. This is a question for Lunkhead.

[jdgstat]

Originally Posted by cubby_swans

the length I had worked fine for me, but mine was already cooling my beer down to 39, so I didn't need much along with the resistor. I would try it with what's there, first, and if then add to that if you think you need to. Then I guess I'd try to match the guage with what's there. A small guage, like maybe 28? Not sure what's there, or if it matters, even, I'm no electrician. This is a question for Lunkhead.

Mine's cooling down to 40.4 or so, so I'm not that far off from you.

"Just connect one side of the resistor to each wire coming from the sensor, so that the resistor is connecting the two wires, that makes it parallel."
So I can insert the resistor in many ways it sounds like? At the base of the sensor, or put a sensor in between the current wire and the extension I put in to make it go toward the top/front of the Danby?

I'm basically making a loop of these wires? Or am I attaching one resistor to each wire?

[cubby_swans]

Originally Posted by jdgstat

Mine's cooling down to 40.4 or so, so I'm not that far off from you.

"Just connect one side of the resistor to each wire coming from the sensor, so that the resistor is connecting the two wires, that makes it parallel."
So I can insert the resistor in many ways it sounds like? At the base of the sensor, or put a sensor in between the current wire and the extension I put in to make it go toward the top/front of the Danby?

I'm basically making a loop of these wires? Or am I attaching one resistor to each wire?

this is about as simple as it gets.... once you see the sensor and resistor, it will be quite obvious. There are two wires leading from the sensor to the plug. Attach each end of the sensor to each of the wires.

I also found lunkhead's picture of what he did... it's here.
http://www.micromatic.com/forum/us-e...bytempsens.jpg

[CableGuy]

Originally Posted by jdgstat

Thanks for the response Cableguy. And yes, everyone's been very helpful, especially to a noob such as myself. My father in law can fix anything, so if I can get all the parts necessary, he'll help me rig it.

Now, question time:
So in the last picture, is the blower the thing on the left (remember, I'm a noob!)?
Obviously the fan is in the middle, but what's the red thing on the right?
And how does the power come through? Did you drill a hole behind the fan/blower?
I see the blower sends the air out through the faucet. Do you have to keep the cap of the faucet off all the time?
Lastly, can you buy all these parts here? Or is there a kit for these things? I can get a fan from a computer like the one in the picture, but it has a different type of connection.

Or... Does anyone know someone local in Atlanta that does this type thing for a fee? HAHA!

***edit*** Also, I have full access to the back of the Danby as it goes into the next bar cabinet (which is where I store the CO2 tank), but the top is covered with tile (there is a gap between the tile and top of the kegerator for air flow).

Thanks again, and sorry for all these questions.

Yes, the blower is on the left and the fan is in the middle. The red bracket you see on the right is from when I used to keep the CO2 tank inside. I now have it mounted outside of the kegerator for easier access. I drilled a small hole behind the blower and ran the power wires through a grommet to prevent abrasion. Be careful when drilling through the side or back of your kegerator. You wouldn't want to hit anything important! You'll want to keep the cap on the tower at all times, otherwise the blower will not be able to keep it cold. I removed the cap to give you an idea how I set mine up. Also, when you drill the hole for the blower hose and beer line going to the tower, you'll want to be sure to make it large enough to allow for air to return from the tower to the kegerator. I think mine is somewhere around 2-1/2". You'll definitely need to remove the tower in order to drill the hole. Will you be able to do this? I'm not aware of anywhere that sells all of the items needed for a fan and blower install as a kit. I purchased the blower, mounting bracket and tubing at a local industrial supply house, got the fan (120v) from an electrical surplus store, and the rest were just pieces and parts I had sitting around the house. Before you attempt the resistor mod it's worth noting that the temperature inside my kegerator dropped quite a bit once I added the fan. The circulation helped quite a bit!