Interesting Reply from Erdinger

[bryan73]

I am trying to serve Erdinger at home so I decided to email them and see what they say... here is one mans reply:

Bryan
Firstly my advice would be to not tap the keg at all.
There is no pasteurization with Erdinger as it is a live beer.
Once tapped and the oxygen gets into the keg, it needs to be drunk
within 3 days. It is impossible to dispense Erdinger in a home
environment as you need lots of cooling equipment to prevent the beer
coming out as pure foam.
Who did you get the keg from ? I would suggest you don't attempt
to dispense the keg as the beer will go sour after about a week. I
would suggest we do a swop with the keg for bottles; i can also let
you have some of the other Erdinger beers such as Pikantus,

regards,

Robert

Robert Newland
UK Agent Erdinger Weissbrau

Robert
On 27 Jun 2007, at 20:29, I wrote:

> Robert,
>
> I was wondering if you can answer this question or put
> me in touch with someone who can answer this question
> correctly.
> I have purchase a keg of Erdinger Weissbier and have
> it in my home Keg refrigerator but I have not tapped
> it yet due to conflicting answers by different
> individuals about the proper Gas or Mixed Gas
> combination. I have been told to use a 60% CO2 & 40%
> Nitrogen mix by some and 75% Nitrogen & 25% CO2 by
> others.
> The beer line is only about 5 feet long. I need to
> know what % of mixed gas and PSI to use for this
> situation. I would like to be able to enjoy this keg
> over an extended period (month or two tops). What
> recommendations can you give me or refer me to?
>
> Thanks
> Bryan
> Erdinger Enthusiast

So I replied that I have keg system similuar to what you would have in a bar.
I'm curious to what his reply is !

[edramshaw]

This is the problem with email or forums as there is often misunderstandings. Based on his reply I would suspect he thinks you are using a pony tap (hand pump). I have hooked up and balanced 6 Erdinger lines in the last 3 months as this product was just introduced in my area. I balanced the lines at 16 psi and have had no complaints from any customers and the beer is pouring great. I would recommend the same for you, 16 psi of straight CO2 with 5-6 feet of 3/16" ID beer tubing.

[bryan73]

So you dont think it will be over carbonated in a month or 2 with straight Co2 ?

Read the last post on this topic...

Correct PSI and tube length for Schneider Weiss

I just dont want to drop $179 on this keg and have it go flat in my house. I will be the only one drinking it so it will have to last.

This is a direct quote from Erdingers PDF files:

"Over-carbonation:
Over-carbonation results from the additional dissolving of CO2 in the beer during longer
breaks in dispensing (e.g. in club houses, discos or with automatic dispensing units). A sure
sign of this is heavy beer foaming (fine-pore froth). In order to avoid over-carbonation (=
additional CO2), a mixed gas (70% N2 and 30% CO2) is recommended, e.g. Aligal 13 by Air
Liquide.
For further information, please contact Erdinger Weißbräu, dispensing technology department.

You can read it here
http://www.erdinger.com/downloads/do...oncept_EWB.pdf

Thanks for your reply and help.
After all that do you still think I will be ok with straight Co2 ?

Thanks
Bryan

[bryan73]

Robert
On 27 Jun 2007, at 22:28, Bryan wrote:

> I have a keg system at home. Cooler with Co2 tanks,
> Regulators and Faucet (Tap).
> Basically the same thing you would have in a bar. I
> just want to make sure I have the correct PSI & Mixed
> Gas to have a decent shelf life at home.
>
> Thanks
> Bryan

Bryan,
As mentioned previously, you won't get a long shelf life from
Erdinger once tapped as the beer is not pasteurized.
I would also be grateful if you can let me know who you bought the
keg from as I have to keep track of all containers.
Once I have that information, I can forward cooling and gas
specification to you,


Damn is he the Keg Police or what !!! If I tell him where I got the Keg he will give me some info... some secret stuff going on here !

[Draught Prophet]

Hi Bryan,
The trouble with 30/70 is that it comes in a tank. Nitrogen won't really mix with CO2 so you get almost pure N for the first part of the tank, and pure CO2 for the second.

At a bar, we alwyas recommend a blender, but it's not cost effective for home use.

So, that said, if you can ensure that your keg fridge can maintain a constant temp of 38, I would go with CO2. Ed has good advise. The reason some think CO2 is bad is because of inconsistant temps.

[edramshaw]

It all breaks down to science. At 38 degrees and 16 psi your co2 levels will balance out at 2.94 volumes of co2. This is consistent with wheat beers which have a higher carbonation level than most beers. As I said, I have done this with the above specs and have had no problems. If Erdinger is not pasteurized then it will not last as long as a pasteurized keg but that is a call you need to make. I thought all the imports had to be pasteurized because they traveled on a boat but then again this guy should know. He does sound like the keg police though, tell him you bought it on the street corner and he will really freak out.

[bryan73]

Got the Faucet mounted and ready for the Keg...
Its been an act of congress to get this keg!
Should be in next week..




Thanks for all the advice guys !

[edramshaw]

Enjoy the Erdinger, you deserve it after all of that!

[bryan73]

Check out that temp ! 46.4 to 50 °F !!

I cant make out the CO2 max stuff.

Just put it in the fridge though... got it chilling down to 38 and 16 PSI...
We will see how this goes...

[psychodad]

Have you seen this? http://www.erdinger.com/downloads/do...oncept_EWB.pdf

Looks like 3 days of life is all they expect you to get out of that bad boy. Better invite some friends.

[bryan73]

There is no way !!
There is a bar at the golf club in a town 10 miles from me and they dont move there Erdinger that quick. Having troubles getting a good pour at the moment.
Constantly seeing bubbles coming from the coupler into the beer line... getting massive glasses of foam I can get 50/50 on the 3rd glass !! This was going to be my beer of choice on tap... but I can only get 13.2 size kegs and I dont see me moving that much. Think I may have to switch to Widmers Hefe (wasnt to bad to be an American version) Might just have to drink the Erdinger from the bottles.. they are good that way too... Right now im starting to wonder how old this keg was before I even got it. I'm in somewhat a rural area so this keg could be old as hell anyway ! But im going to keep on drinking !!! Hope for the best !

[bryan73]

It hit me late last night...

The glass is filling up way to fast !
I think my flow rate is what is causing the foamy beer...
But what can I do to fix that ? short of cutting the PSI down to low & extending the beer line.
I have the standard 5ft that came with the door kit

I did an experiment and turned the Co2 down to like 8 PSI and pulled the pressure release on the coupler for just a second and then I had slow pouring beautiful beer !!! But I cant see doing that all the time...
Plus im sure it will be flat if I keep that up.


Any ideas ?

[psychodad]

I'd figure out what the 7,0 g/l converts to in psi. Everything I googled on it boggled me though.

[edramshaw]

You are right, turning down the psi will cause the beer to go flat in a few days. Flow control is handled through restriction, to do this you would want to use a longer line. I would start with maybe 7' of 3/16" ID tubing and then trim back 6" at a time till you get a good flow.

[bryan73]

thanks ed.

Guess I will be ordering more MM products !!

[bryan73]

Sunday Bloody Sunday ! Empty Kegs !



I guess all the pouring one or so to get a good one makes it go quick.
I got 15 days on that 13 Gallon !

Time to try something else

[thehammer]

Sweet! Great picture. Edramshaw though is right on about the line length and pressure. I would also go with a 7-8' line and keep my pressure at 14-15lbs. Then trim back 6" at a time until the beer pours perfect! Also I know it's expensive but nothing like a Mcdantim blender to pour the most pickiest of beers! I make a ton of beers in Canada, keg them, and serve them on my kegerator and none of them are PASTUERIZED. I had one actually last 3 months and poured great to the bitter sweet end! Most beers in my system never ever make it quite that long but it was a dam Russian Triple Stout and that baby was a toughy to drink a lot off in one sitting! Otherwise, I have many a non-pastuerized beer on tap and always 3 at a time and they keep for at least 1 month I do know! If a beer is kept at the right temp and pressure it will last. I am just amazed that somebody at the Erdinger brewery just don't like home drinkers and expect you to always go to the pub! Next time you write them I suggest you tell them you have a pub/restaurant and see if you get a more educated reply!

[bryan73]

Well I did add 2 more feet of hose and still had the same issue (7 ft on it now)
My temps were consistent, but what it seems like is the beer in the line that had sit was flat... I know thats nuts cause its sealed, but after I poured about 1 to 1 & half out I could get a good pour. If you waited 30 minutes to pour you had to do it again. I could get 3 or 4 in a row fine, its just when it stopped.
Also I couldnt pour like you are suppose to. I had to put the glass against the faucet to try and calm it down it seemed like coming out. I should have shot video of it and posted it. I am almost tempted to buy the same damn keg and try it again. I do love that beer... just hated the waste !

That or go back to Widmer or someother Hefe !

[edramshaw]

Beer will go "flat" in a sealed line if the temperature warms to a point that makes the co2 insoluble in the liquid. Essentially temperature dictates how much co2 (or gas) can be absorbed into a liquid. If beer that at 38 degrees has 2.4 volumes of co2 dissolved into warms to say 50, there will now be two separate elements in that line,1. under carbonated beer and 2. the gas that can longer be stored in the liquid. This is what causes the foam (the excess gas not dissolved in the beer) and the flat beer. Seeing as how you have a converted fridge there is typically not a lot of problems with cooling to the faucet. Out of curiosity, how far does the shank extend into the fridge? There needs to be enough to act as a heat exchanger when drawing cold from the unit to the faucet. Other than that I would consider the sway on the thermostat, if the differential is big then it could also cause similiar problems. They make a thermostat the you plug into the fridge and set a temp probe inside and it overrides the existing thermostat. Just some more thoughts.

[bryan73]

I just went to Total Wine !!! ITS LIKE THE WALMART of alcohol and got me a 1/6 of Brooklyn Brown Ale. So we will see how it goes. I like Newcastle so I hope its as good. The recommendations for temps is 46 to 52 and 18 PSI.

But im cooling it to 38 and going to try 16 PSI.

I just got a PM from a tech that said they have been noticing an issue with Erdinger and a flow control might resolve the issue.... I hope this is the case. I would love to go back to Erdinger!!! So would using http://www.micromatic.com/draft-keg-beer/fittings-pid-7419-1.html work as a flow control ? Because that is what looks like is on top of this coupler Perlick, Beer Flow Control Sankey Keg Tap D Sys Used - (item 130034028583 end time Jul-31-07 13:33:34 PDT)

[edramshaw]

I would not use that as I would imagine it would cause foaming issues due to the way ball valves work. Perhaps someone with more experience has something different to say. I have some accounts that have a flow control faucet. It looks similar to a Guinness faucet but it has a dial around the back that you can use to control the flow. I checked on ebay but there were none available. I will see if I can come up with one around here for you as well. Another option that Scott may be able to help with is a small screen like tube that slips into the beer line behind the faucet. Yo may be able to achieve similar results with one of those. Good choice on the brown, another good beer. I would keep the psi around 13 or so at 38 degrees to keep the carbonation level consistant with a brown ale. Good luck with this one and I will get back to you on this faucet.

[bryan73]

I am going to crank the PSI down but its not really to bad as far as head size..

Thanks for checking into that for me... I want to try another keg of Erdinger.