another stupid question

[DougA]

This is probably the only forum I have felt like a newbie on - but ya gotta start somewhere.

I've got a restaurant without draft - not good. Want to change that, but very low on $$$$.

I had a draft guy in and got a $2,000.+ quote to run lines and all other necessary stuff from my 10x16' walk-in which is 30' from bar. Simply can't afford that.
OK - I can get hold of glycol tower and controls pretty cheap, but need lines and pump.
Question is this - it seems that most pumps have a chiller for the glycol, if the kegs are in the cooler and the glycol reservoir is in the cooler, could you not just have a coil (radiator type) in the cooler that would chill the glycol enough. Then all I would need is a pump to circulate. What am I missing?? Walk-in is 38 deg. - seems about right.
Sorry that I've gotta be so cheap, but the restaurant has (is) eating all my money to get set-up and there is precious little left.
I want to run 4 to 6 lines. Lines are one thing, pump prices are pretty steep. Any thoughts?
Thanks, Doug

[TAPMAN]

Doug,The glycol temp needs to be about 28 deg. to be able to maintain 38 deg. at the faucet. At 38, your glycol would be returning to the cooler at about 48, thus warming your beer, causing major foaming issues. An idea that I had,was to run the glycol thru a coil box full of lots of ice before running back to the faucets, but still, you would not be at 28,may be 34 and you would constantly be replenishing your ice supply. Never got the chance to try it. It probably would not work anyway Good luck, Tapman

[buzzlightyear]

quote:Originally posted by DougA

This is probably the only forum I have felt like a newbie on - but ya gotta start somewhere.

I've got a restaurant without draft - not good. Want to change that, but very low on $$$$.

I had a draft guy in and got a $2,000.+ quote to run lines and all other necessary stuff from my 10x16' walk-in which is 30' from bar. Simply can't afford that
Question is this - it seems that most pumps have a chiller for the glycol, if the kegs are in the cooler and the glycol reservoir is in the cooler, could you not just have a coil (radiator type) in the cooler that would chill the glycol enough. Then all I would need is a pump to circulate. What am I missing?? Walk-in is 38 deg. - seems about right.
Sorry that I've gotta be so cheap, but the restaurant has (is) eating all my money to get set-up and there is precious little left.
I want to run 4 to 6 lines. Lines are one thing, pump prices are pretty steep. Any thoughts?
Thanks, Doug

cuysdcqu

[DougA]

Thanks for the info. I guess it makes sense. I thought that the pump and insulation would have been a bit better than to loose that much temp., considering that the beer starts at 38 also.

How about if there's an added cooler right by the tower. I've got 2 bar coolers, but not enough room in them for kegs (still sell bottles), but could easily run a cold plate or coil. There's already a cold plate there for the soft drink lines which run nearly 80' from their pump in the basement. Ice is not the best option if someone forgets to fill it.

I guess the problem I have is that if the $$ are too high, it just ain't gonna happen, so I'm struggling to find an alternative.

Thanks, Doug

[Beer Dr]

Doug,
Do yourself a favor and don't install the beer system until you can afford to do it right. I've seen way too many systems put in low budget. This will end up costing you much more in the long run with the beer your going to be putting down the drain from foaming issues. The cold plate is definitley a bad idea. The beer will be one temp. in the walk-in cooler, another temp.(warmer, also causing secondary fermentation and additional bacteria growth) in the lines running to the cold plate, another in the cold plate. You need to maintain 38 degrees all the way from the walk-in to the faucet. Not only that you would be able to pressurize the barrels with straight CO2 because of the pressure you need (28 lbs. for the cold plate by itself) to use to have it run properly. I've been installing for 29 years and find that the best thing for you running a 30 ft. run would be glycol only,(I would definitley not try an air shaft system at this length) and Kool-Rite tower. All the systems I put in now also have blenders and secondary regulators. Just keep in mind spend the money on the system not the beer going down the drain!

[Larry Tapper]

Beer Dr, I will agree put the system in rigth, It will only make you money, the beer will taste better, and you will have more repeat coustomers. I've only been at this 27years but micro has a Electric chiller for the dispensing end, but don't know the pressures need to go throught this. Have put in some cheap chill systems, they are better than air but od not compare to glycol. L. Tapper

L. Tapper

[Beer Dr]

The beer lines from the cooler still need to be maitained at 38 degrees. If you don't there will be excessive bacteria growth. The flash chiller you mention is not meant for long term continous use. I believe it's use is intended for parties, banquets, etc. If this is the same one you're talking about. If you put a flash chiller at the end of the system the beer is chilled only at the point of dispense.

[Scott Zuhse]

Flash chillers are designed for pasteurized beers that can be stored at ambient temperatures and then flash chilled for consumption. Not intended for non pasteurized domestic beers.

DougA, do yourself a huge favor and get a loan and do this right. Even the quote for $2000 seems low. You want a quote from an installer who understands what it takes to not only get the beer to the faucet but how to assure a quality presentation to your customers. This will result in high resale of draught and your loan can be prepaid in a relatively short time. Eventually you will be selling nothing but draught and very little bottle beer.

If you go the the "cheap" route, what you will be missing is the profit you should have made on all of the beer that went done the drain. Do not make the mistake other retailers have when it comes to dispensing draught.

Scott Zuhse, Instructor Micro Matic Dispense Institute