Where to install 3/16 for more resistance?

[Higgins]

I'm currently looking at a 48' run of 5/16 running approx 8#'s
With a vertical lift of 4' for 2#'s
In order for me to get to 22#'s I need approx 4.5' of 3/16 choke.
Where in the run should I add this. I hear it's better to choke the tap end instead of the keg end but how would one keep this extra five feet cold?
Should I reduce my 48' trunk to 44' or so, tie in the 3/16 and rewrap the lot with the glycol runs? If so what's a good method to make your own trunk line as this would be what I'd be doing.

Off topic anyone have any opinions on the ****** faucets. They don't have the same cold block technology as I'd like but they cold line them to the faucet with copper and tie right on to a copper plate. Wondering if this is a close second or not.

Lastly what's preferred vinyl, poly or barrier line?
What's the main difference between them and how do you tell what's what?

Thanks

[Scott Zuhse]

What type material line is this that it gives you 8 lbs. resistance at 48'? It is not barrier. Hopefully you are using barrier. Why would you make your own trunk line when you can purchase a ready made one utilizing barrier? You cannot make a trunk line as well as the manufacturer even close to the same price. Most handmade trunk lines eventually allow condensate build up and thus rot and then inefficient cooling.

What are you using to propel the beer through the system at 22 PSIG? Hopefully not beer gas. Not a good choice if you want to make a lot of money on draught.

Are you looking to save money? If so, you may end up with more problems then what it was worth. Invest wisely up front and you can endure high returns from your system for years.

We conduct a three day advanced workshop on these topics. For the investment, you will end up with the knowledge to do it right using "best practise" technology and strategies.

As to the tower, nothing comes close to Micro Matic's Kool Rite technology. Not even second place.

Yes the 3/16" is installed at the faucet end of system after the glycol connections are completed. This post could go on for sometime explaining the detail of balancing and connections of systems. But it would be rather long. Call customer service and obtain my number so that we can discuss.



Scott Zuhse, Instructor Micro Matic Dispense Institute

[Higgins]

Thanks Scott I am now sufficiently confused...
22PSI (give or take) is all I've read about, heard about and ever seen in use.
The site here is teeming with 14psi CO2 or 22-28psi mixed gas.
I'm not sure about the type of line however as I ordered through a draft distributor before knowing there were different types. So I'm not sure how to tell what's what.

I will be using either a blender or a nitrogen generator with a blender built in.
I'd love to know the proper resistance calculations as I can't seem to find a consistent one anywhere. I've been using the calculations on this site

http://ceisites.com/tap_info.htm#manytypes

I am in fact trying to get down to California for the October session but may be unable this time around.

I appreciate the help.

[Scott Zuhse]

If you are using a gas blender, preferably you will use approximately 22 PSIG to propel the beer out of the keg. To acquire a descent flow speed, you will require the identical amount of back pressure in PSI against the beer.

This back pressure is referred to as restriction. It comes from three areas in a system - hardware, gravity, and beer line. To assist you in building this system correctly, we will need to know what type of tower you will be utilizing, hardware used in the keg cooler, vertical distance between the faucet and the bottom of the keg, and the inside diameter, length and type of material of your trunk line you are using. Please advise.

Scott Zuhse, Instructor Micro Matic Dispense Institute

[Higgins]

Thanks Scott, the hardware from the keg up is. Regular type D sankeys for fourteen of our beers and the type U for our two Irish stouts. From there there is a 6' 3/8ID vinyl jumper to the tecflo 100 fob on the wall (these are mounted at approx. 70" above the ground if that is a factor). Then there is a 12" 3/8ID vinyl line from the fob to a two way beer manifold for splitting the kegs. Now this Beer Y is unlike any I've seen so I'm not sure of the resistance. It is 3/8 in and out but it is not metal. Plastic block with plastic 3/8 barbed on bottom. A black plastic elbow coming out the left & right sides 1" 3/8 tubing and a plastic shut off for each line. If anyone knows what it is please let me know.
This link has a picture of the unit but it's hard to see.
http://www.pntech.ca/page119.htm
It's in the second picture down on the right hand side. It's the unit located directly after the fob. Off topic this company sure loves to sell pumps. Is there any advantage to using 100% CO2 other than the savings of the mixed canisters?

Our Beer Y is the last stop before the tower.
There are 4 trunk runs as there are 20 products going to 2 locations (2 trunks of 10 per location) To save line lengths the trunks will exit the cooler at different locations. Picture a big L shape of kegs. Two trunks will exit at each end of the "L".

Run #1 is 34' from the farthest Beer Y and 26' from closest Beer Y to the tap. Verticle rise of 15' from bottom of keg to faucet.
Run #2 is 49' farthest Y to 41' closest Y. Vert. rise of 42" from keg bottom.
Run #3 is 27' farthest Y to 19' closest Y. Vert. rise of 15' from keg bottom.
Run #4 is 42' farthest Y to 34' closest Y. Vert. rise of 42" from keg bottom.

Our faucets will consist of 3-10 product underbars (not sure of choke length yet but probably can be altered) and 4-3" chrome column towers.
Now I'm still a little unsure of the different types of tubing and how to tell them apart but as for trunk lines they are not installed yet and we can go with any size from this point. 5/16 sounds appealing as we'd need 4 glycol lines in there as well and the trunk would be a bit smaller and hopefully easier to manuever than the 3/8.

Sorry for the novel but any help would be awesome.

[Higgins]

Also is there any room left for the October sessions at the institute in California?

[Scott Zuhse]

We are getting close. 5/16" ID line may not apply as the plastic barbs on the splitter are for 3/8" and there may not be barbs available for the 5/16. Personally, I would go with a simple stainless beer "Y".

Who is manufacturing the towers? Are they Kool Rite from Micro Matic? Need to know this before calculating. Also, this would not be an application for beer pumps nor should 100% CO2 be utilized.

If you want to do this right while keeping your pour cost down and delivering great beer for the entire keg, use a gas blender and set the pressure to the keg at 22 PSIG. Do not make the mistake that others have before you. And don't even go down the "the cost of the blender is to high" road. You cannot afford not to have it!

Please advise on the towers and if you can change out the "y"s.

Scott Zuhse, Instructor Micro Matic Dispense Institute