coils initial foaming

[partykeg]

I just have a couple of questions about the coil cooling systems, we are finding that the coils tend to foam alot for the first half gallon or so and we have to wait about 10 minutes before it pours ok. Is that normal I have thought of some possible problems and was hoping if you could confirm or otherwise my ideas.

AlsoThe foam also seems to build u in the jumper line between coupler and unit are there any possible causes of this?

1 The first lot of beer in coil takes a while to cool and hence is foamy when it comes out?

2 There is cleaning powder/ soloution residue in the lines

3 Presure is too low/high?

4 There is a leaking seal in the system?

5 This is usual with coils?

AlsoThe foam also seems to build u in the jumper line between coupler and unit are there any possible causes of this?

Could this be because i dont have a check valve/ball in there. Do they do anything?

Thanks very much for your help,

Jake Howman
Party Kegs

[CoreyD]

You should fill the lines with beer before you ice the cooler. Then add ice and water, not just ice. You can also put foam pipe insulation on the jumper line to keep the beer from warming on the way to the box. If you just brought the keg to the party you will always get foam for the first few pours, but the logner you wait between setup and pouring the less there will be.

"If you tap it, they will come."

[partykeg]

quote:Originally posted by CoreyD

You should fill the lines with beer before you ice the cooler. Then add ice and water, not just ice. You can also put foam pipe insulation on the jumper line to keep the beer from warming on the way to the box. If you just brought the keg to the party you will always get foam for the first few pours, but the logner you wait between setup and pouring the less there will be.

"If you tap it, they will come."

I dont chill the kegs so insulation is pointless i guess, I bought the 120' so i didnt have to chill kegs but it seems to give me way more grief than my cold plate jb.



www.partykegs.com.au

[CoreyD]

I like the coils better then the cold plates because you don't need to drain off the water in the cooler. Try filling the coils with beer before filling the cooler with ice and water and see if it helps.

"If you tap it, they will come."

[syt]

Hey Jake,

I've done lots of portable draft beer dispensing at events and I would say that the coils are far superior to cold plates. I have a big dispensing truck and smaller dispensing units like Jockey Boxes for the various events that I do. Cold plates have a problem of refresh time, that is to say that once the cold plates warm up, it will take time for it cool back down even though it is in an ice water bath. Coils on the other hand are good but I find that after the first few pours, especially when you do large scale events it becomes a big problem no matter how much ice and water you throw at it.

To answer your questions:

1. This is with any coil or cold plate system.
2. Cleaning powder should not cause foam. I leave the cleaning solution in the line before every event so that I ensure that the lines are super clean when I start pouring. I basically pour off a pitcher to make sure that all the solution is gone and then I can start pouring.
3. Pressure, if pushing with CO2, should be set at 12-18PSI. If using beer gas (CO2 and Nitrogen, my preference), it doesn't affect the beer as much.
4. If there is a leak in the system, you should be able to see it if you pump air through the coils and have the coils submerged in soapy water. You'll see the bubbles. This is the same with all the connections in the system. Just dap some soapy water and you'll know. This might cause foaming, depending on the size of the leak.
5. Coils or Cold plate...you'll have the same issue of foam.

CoreyD's answer works too. However, I found a solution that works ok but it takes a lot of prep time. If you have access to a solid working walk-in fridge, I basically super chill the beer and then have the insulation around the keg while it is being super chilled. I find that this helps in minimizing the foam for a little bit and it does give you some breathing room especially when you pour alot of draft beer. This is only good for destinations close by. I haven't figured out how to do this without buying a refrigerated truck.

With that being said, I have seen a solution that I have not tried yet. There is a company (I can't remember the name) that produces a coil based product called the Jockey Box Plus (just Google it). It looks interesting because it uses patented technology and from what I gather it seems that you can always pour foam free beer from a keg regardless of the conditions by only adding some water and ice. I'm thinking of purchasing one unit just to try it out because I pour enough draft beer at remote events every year that whatever time and foam that I can save myself is money in the bank for me.

I'll keep you posted when I purchase it.

[Beer Dr]

Hope your using a no rinse cleaner, if not you should be rinsing with clean water. Cold plates should not have a ice water bath! The cold plate should be on a rack in the box, and the drain on the box open. A pressure of 26-28 lbs will make them run properly. The keg needs to be kept below 45 degrees also. Keep in mind this pressure will over carbonate the beer if it's not used the same day. As far as the coil box go's it is a far better box than a cold plate if being used properly. The coils need to be covered with ice and water to the top of the coil, and not draining like the cold plate. Depending on the length of the coil you should run them at 34-36 lbs. Also the coil length is what determines wether you can use them without chilling the barrel. Again over carbonation is a problem if using the barrel more than one day. Both boxes are designed for short term use!

[beerboy52]

We do alot of events in the summer time. Anything from semi, to draft trailers, to tubs on the ground, to a Cobra set-up. All we use are coil systems. Some other distributors willpush with straight CO2, but I prefer a mixed gas because it does not over-charge the product. I agree with SYT on this. It is more expensive and it uses up at a faster rate, but it is more user-friendly than CO2.You can turn the pressure up to 25-30 psi.

If your event is very busy you'll probably have to put the kegs in tubs in series. Remember that the coils can only chill what is in the lines. If the business is slow and the keg warms up, then pouring is more tempermental.

Pouring beer at an event is a fast running thing. The idea is to pour the beer and get it across the counter to the customer, take his money and look to the next customer. The busier you are the better the jockey boxes work (up to a point). They are designed to work better 'at speed'. We do events with the kegs in semi-trailers and put 10 kegs on line, in series, at a time (going to 2 separate boxes).


The problem with the air/foam in the lines is probably caused by the pressure not being high enough. I use the term that the lines "should be packed", with the beer's carbonation suppressed 'inside' the product.


Lastly, I do not think there is any product that will stop foaming. It is a condition of beer. At a busy event you do what you can do to prevent it, but it is conditional as to the keg temperature, the outside air temperature, the amount of ice in the box(should be full), or the way that the servers are pouring the beer. Most BTs have no idea what it takes to pour a beer! Most do it wrong!

Do not use cold plates. They are old school and have their definite limitations.
Coils do need to have their water drained off as time goes on, but drain and refill w/ ice and keep pouring.

Does this help?

[Scott Zuhse]

Unless you are willing to drink the first beer after rinsing out cleaning chemical, never use beer to rinse. Always rinse with water. Preferably these systems are cleaned and rinsed after each event. Attempt to blow out as much water as possible. Seems like a lot of work but since large events have branded signage everywhere and a captive audience drinking potentially thousands of samples, this equipment should be kept as clean as possible.

The use of CO2 is quite acceptable with this equipment. Normally the low 30s will work for pressure. These are high volume and short duration events. Overcarbonation should not be an issue unless you have partials at the end of the event. Manage these events so that here are no partials. If you end up with some, turn off the pressure and bleed the head space off with the coupler's safety relief valve. Adjust regulator back to 14 PSIG and recharge the partials' head space.

As indicated in other posts, place beer in the system first and then ice. No need to drain water from bath. Although throughout the event, the ice bath must be evaluated and ice replenished to maintain mostly an ice with a slight water base bath. The bath will deteriorate quickly based on how warm the keg temperatures are and the volume dispensed.

Once the system is pressurized, the beer should be allowed to set for ten minutes or so. There may be slight waste at first. These systems were designed to allow the faucets to be kept wide open. Managing the ice bath, keg temperatures and pressure flows will assist in being successful.

[syt]

Beer Dr: I definitely use a no-rinse cleaner. It's fast and it works well.

BTW, to report back I found the name of the company that I told you about in the earlier post. I still haven't had a chance to purchase their Jockey Box Plus product, but I plan to do so shortly. You can check out the company called icefloe Technologies and if you visit their Technology section you'll get to see their technology in action. The one I'm intrested in is their Chiller technology which is used for all their portable dispensing equipment. The video is a bit homegrown, but it shows what I would want my portable dispensing equipment to do. If you think about what their technology can do, it is pretty phenomenal and the money that one can save.

I'll report back on its effectiveness once I get hands on one.

[KegTapper]

I am waiting for fedex to bring me a basic keg dispensing kit that includes a CO2 tank and the usual extras. I will be putting the keg(s) in the attick not refridgerated, and want to run a line down to the kitchen to a jockey box with a tap on it.

I just realized i may have some issues. When using the system, we will be pushing an entire keg in about an hour, usually 2 kegs in one night, sometimes more than 5. The faucet for all intensive purposes, will be almost always open.

Will a 3/16 line be a problem?
Should i still set the regulator to 12 psi?

I just need to dispense cold beer as fast as possible.

Thanks.

[Scott Zuhse]

I give up! Why the attic?

3/16" will not allow you to dispense fast. Check out the reply to your other post:

Hopefully the keg is pasteurized! If you are utilizing a 120" coil, you should probably start around the low 30s and then increase until the desired flow rate is acquired. 3/8" or 5/16" ID beer line would be acceptable. Preferable use a barrier line for the jumper since this will be much more friendlier to the beer than vinyl. Have lots of ice on hand!

Be aware the use of coils was never intended for long term dispensing. Normally this is utilized for short duration parties and special events.
__________________
Scott Zuhse, Instructor Micro Matic Dispense Institute

[PumpNKegs.com.au]

If in the attick remember you will effectivly have more presure in the jockey box because of the head from having the keg up high

www.pumpnkegs.com.au

[www.easykegs.com.au]

A wierd concept how do you get it up there??

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