Haeir Kegerator Improvements

[jwhartline]

To all those who have purchased the Haier Kegerator and have experienced problems with temperature control......

I am new at this and recently purchased a Haier Kegerator with a dual stainless steel tap with stainless steel door an upgraded stainless steel drip tray. It's beautiful!!! However, I'm having problems getting the fridge to maintain a steady temperature and pour a non-foamy beer.

After initial assembly and set-up I powered it up and put a glass of water inside and let it sit overnight. I took a reading the next morning and had 38 degree reading. Perfect! I ran to the Laurel Bottled Gas Co., for those who live in the Baltimore - Washington area and need co2, and got my shiny new co2 tank filled with food grade co2. I then ran 5 minutes away to Corridor Liquors in Laurel and picked up my keg of beer.

I took the co2 and hooked it up and set-up the keg in the fridge, tapped it and turned on the gas, to the 12 psi specified by the manufacturer, as I read that the co2 will help the keg to stabilize quickly. Left it alone and came back about 24 hours later. Temperature reading in that same glass of water 48 degrees. Turned the thermostat down with minimal effect. Turned the thermostat all the way down, again with minimal effect. I think the temperature was sitting at 48 degrees at this point after another 24 hours.

Air movement....I ran to Radio Shack and picked up a 110V fan and a project box. On to Home Depot for some Carlon blue tube and connectors to attach tubing to the box and a power tool replacement power cord. Assembled the fan unit in the box. Attached blue tubing to box and ran it up to 1" from the top of the tower, drilled a 3/8" hole through the fridge and the box for the power cord, wired up power placed it in the bottom of the fridge and let it run for the next two days while I was out of town. I figured the air movement up to the tower with the return coming back down the tower would give me enough air circulation in the fridge. Temperature of the glass of water 45 degrees.

BTW...the beer temp was consistent with the temps in the glass.

Time to look at the thermostat on the rear of the unit....after reading many posts on this forum I figured the thermostat would be similar to those mentioned here...and it is. A couple of adjustment screws are visible once you remove it from it's plastic housing. A couple of turns to the outer screw seems to be the answer. I had no luck. Regardless of how many times I turned the screw the unit would not kick on. Next, adjust the screw that is next to the outer screw but inside the outer chassis. There is a small cutout to get a small screw driver in for adjustments. Making a few turns did get the compressor to kick on. 24 hours later my temperatures are reading 31 degrees. I start to adjust the screws the other way and gradually have managed to get the thermostat dialed in to 37-39 degrees.

I'm not happy with having to do all this tweaking to get the temperature I want and have since ordered a Ranco ETC-111000-000 Digital Temperature Controller from Ranco for $59. It is much like the Johnson Controls A419 or the Brewers Edge unit, however it does not have the wiring pre assembled for simple hook-up. It does have 120V input for power, a temperature probe that can be encased in pvc for submersion and a form C relay for turning the compressor of and on based on the temperature settings you program into the unit. This should give me greater control of the temperature and avoid having to fart around with the crappy thermostat that came with the unit.

The last thing is to adjust my beer lines to the correct length for the proper pour as its pouring pretty fast and is still a little foamy. I know that lowering the psi on the co2 will cause it to go flat. I do need to allow my beer to re-carbonate since I had the temperature well over 38 degrees for the better part of a week and now it's a little flat.

Does anyone have an answer as to how long it takes for your beer to absorb the co2 and have the proper carbonation?

The beer is finally cold and starting to get is carbonation back. Hopefully it won't take long for the temp controller to arrive.

I have to admit, although frustrating, I have learned a fair amount about dispensing beer from a keg and now feel some sense of accomplishment.

For those who plan on buying the lesser expensive kegerator models, plan on doing some tweaking and modifying to get things right. First and foremost, replace the thermostat. Second, plan to cool the tower and circulate the air in the fridge with a fan. And lastly, order some extra beer line to be able to control the flow rate at the tap.

If you have questions on the mods, please let me know I will help to the best of my ability.

Cheers!!!

Jeff

[cubby_swans]

Even though it can be a PITA to get a kegerator tweaked right, initially, the good news is that once you've got it, you don't have to touch it again.

As far as co2 absorbing back into the beer.... depends on how flat/how much beer, etc. Couple days, at least. Rock it gently once a day so that all of the beer is getting recarbonated.

[KillianBoy]

jwhartline,
I got a couple of questions and comments, did you check to see if the tower cooler is working efficiently? At 110v at 100 %, you might be over pressurizing the project box. Hold a piece of paper over the fan area and see which way it bends. If air is being pushed out of the box through the fan, warm backwash from the box may actually be creating more heat then moving cold. air to the tower.
And what does the cold plate look like (frost or ice)? If it's iced over, it could be insulating the cold plate preventing it from getting colder then 32 degrees.
It would take my Haier three days to go from 45 to 31 degrees. To do it in 24 hours, it would mean that your compressor didn’t turn off for that period of time. Compressor being on that long may cause ice on cold plate. I think the auto defrost is kicking in during some of the times your taking the temperature readings, that could be the reason behind your inconsistent readings and temperatures, it was my problem in my first keg.
My first keg was Michelob Ultra, no fans, no timer and stock tower. One day owner of Haier called and said beer was warm, I checked everything in Haier, inside was dripping with condensation and there was a little ice on cold plate. After reading through forum I found the unit basically shuts down until ice is melted. Addition of timer cured Haier of this problem.
I also find it kind of unusual for your water glass and beer being consistent. Most guys who have a water glass in their kegerator say that their water temps are near 33-34, while beer in glass was 38. I myself froze nearly every container of water I had in the Haier, yet my beer was never colder then 36 degrees. I’ve had temps when the compressor was off of 45 degrees and 40 degrees (top and bottom temps). When the compressor kicked on the temps slowly when down, the compressor ran about an hour lowest temps was 20 degrees (only top fan blowing). The top temp ran as low as 30 degrees. When the compressor kicked off both temps ran about 33 degrees. The compressor will run at the coldest temperature for certain amount of time then shut off. I have found there is no true temperature setting for the thermostat. You need to set the thermostat for 38 degrees of the second room temperature glass of beer and not the temperature of the unit or of a glass of water.
And about the controller, it seems to me it would take someone with more then basic electrical skills to hook up the Ranco controller. After you get it all hooked up with controller, check forum for placement of remote, some have said don’t put in water, others swear by submersion.
I fully agree with cubby, it is a PITA to get it working right but once done you don’t have to touch anything. A timer, two fans and fully insulated tower works for me and I’m still using the crappy unmodified thermostat and I’ve poured 39-38 degree beer for 1 month, nothing touched since midway through previous keg. Mind you I’m not against external controllers, you do want need to do to pour perfect beer. My gripe isn’t against the Haier thermostat, my gripe is against the auto defrost cycle in the Haier. These things were built as refrigerators and not kegerators.

KB

[jaypee]

How often does the Haier go into defrost mode?

[KillianBoy]

jaypee,
Whenever it feels it needs to defrost, usually when you want to drink beer. I use a timer to turn Haier off in the early morning hours and just before drinking beer (so when pouring beer the compressor is on). Ever since I used the timer I haven't had any problems with the Haier defrosting during daylight hours and drinking time.

KB

[jwhartline]

jwhartline,
I got a couple of questions and comments, did you check to see if the tower cooler is working efficiently? At 110v at 100 %, you might be over pressurizing the project box. Hold a piece of paper over the fan area and see which way it bends. If air is being pushed out of the box through the fan, warm backwash from the box may actually be creating more heat then moving cold. air to the tower.

Yes….too much air kicking back out the intake opening. I tried to reconfigure it by changing the Radio Shack project box to a Carlon 4X4X4 weather proof box and a funnel to direct the air right into the hose that leads to the tower but it still has too much air moving out the intake opening.

The fan is not giving off enough heat to present a problem. I have disabled the thermostat and installed the Ranco electronic thermostat with the temp sensor sitting in a glass of water in the fridge. Target temp is 37 with a 2 degree differential. At 39 the relay in the thermostat kicks on which powers the compressor. Once the temperature hits 39 it turns off. Beer temp on the second pour is 38.5 degrees.

As far as the tower cooling, I still don’t have enough air getting to the tower to cool the lines and prevent the ¾ glass of foam on the first pour. Second pour is perfect. I don’t believe I need to lengthen my beer lines as I poured beer into a large measuring cup for 15 seconds and got exactly 32 oz. That’s 128 oz. per minute which is supposedly the suggested pour rate. The fan is putting out 32 cfm. Maybe too much for the little boxes I have been installing it in. With reading on how much success everyone has had with PC fans, I may need to go to a lower cfm on the fan to get better air movement. I’m also considering getting a centrifugal blower instead of the box fan. I’ll let you know where I end up with this.

And what does the cold plate look like (frost or ice)? If it's iced over, it could be insulating the cold plate preventing it from getting colder then 32 degrees.
And…
It would take my Haier three days to go from 45 to 31 degrees. To do it in 24 hours, it would mean that your compressor didn’t turn off for that period of time. Compressor being on that long may cause ice on cold plate.

I do have a little frost build-up on the cold plate. I also have opened the door way too many times and believe this to be the major reason for the frost. Frost is the accumulation of frozen water molecules. If you continue to open the door and introduce moisture from humidity in the air, you will get frost build-up. If you minimize the time the door opens, let’s assume once to switch kegs ever 3 to 6 months, a minimal amount of frost may build up but should not be enough to present a problem.

I also find it kind of unusual for your water glass and beer being consistent. Most guys who have a water glass in their kegerator say that their water temps are near 33-34, while beer in glass was 38. I myself froze nearly every container of water I had in the Haier, yet my beer was never colder then 36 degrees. I’ve had temps when the compressor was off of 45 degrees and 40 degrees (top and bottom temps). When the compressor kicked on the temps slowly when down, the compressor ran about an hour lowest temps was 20 degrees (only top fan blowing). The top temp ran as low as 30 degrees. When the compressor kicked off both temps ran about 33 degrees. The compressor will run at the coldest temperature for certain amount of time then shut off. I have found there is no true temperature setting for the thermostat. You need to set the thermostat for 38 degrees of the second room temperature glass of beer and not the temperature of the unit or of a glass of water.

I can tell you that my glass of water has never frozen, even with the old thermostat. It should never freeze with the new thermostat. I did some major adjusting of both screws on the original thermostat to get the temps down to where they needed to be. But I don’t want to go through another week of a new keg getting to the correct temperature and this is why I changed the thermostat.

And about the controller, it seems to me it would take someone with more then basic electrical skills to hook up the Ranco controller. After you get it all hooked up with controller, check forum for placement of remote, some have said don’t put in water, others swear by submersion.

Some may consider it more than basic electronics. The controller I purchased is a 120V AC controller with a Form C relay. You wire a permanent 120V AC power cord to the appropriate input and disconnect the old thermostat and take the black and white wires to the relay. The probe is in a glass of water. I removed the probe from the water and the air temperature fluctuation was too great. The temperature in the glass of water is definitely closer to that of the beer in the keg. Once the temperature in the glass of water reaches 39 degrees the thermostat changes the state of the relay completing the circuit for powering your compressor. Once the target temp is reached it changes states and turns off the compressor. It is fairly simple but you do need to have a basic knowledge of electronics. You also need to make sure you follow code as far as gauge of wire, connectors for the penetration into the thermostat…etc…etc…

How often does the Haier go into defrost mode?

jaypee,
Whenever it feels it needs to defrost, usually when you want to drink beer. I use a timer to turn Haier off in the early morning hours and just before drinking beer (so when pouring beer the compressor is on). Ever since I used the timer I haven't had any problems with the Haier defrosting during daylight hours and drinking time.

KB

Defrost mode……I don’t believe this has a defrost mode. The only components that make up the refrigerator are the mechanical thermostat, start-up capacitor, compressor with the refrigerant and associated coils for cooling and a thermal protector for overheating of the compressor and the insulated refrigerator. The mechanical thermostat has a gas that expands and contracts with temperature change. This pressure change causes a diaphragm to activate the switch in the thermostat allowing the compressor to kick on. The time for the gas to change acts as a differential to prevent short cycling the compressor.

Even though it can be a PITA to get a kegerator tweaked right, initially, the good news is that once you've got it, you don't have to touch it again.

As far as co2 absorbing back into the beer.... depends on how flat/how much beer, etc. Couple days, at least. Rock it gently once a day so that all of the beer is getting recarbonated.

Cubby – Thanks, carbonation is back!!!

[chiefpontiac]

I also had problems with my POS Haier kegerator. After reading several posts and getting frustrated with ruining keg after keg at 48 deg, I tore apart and old computer and took the muffin 12v fan out and just set it between the CO2 tank and the keg aiming at the cooling plate that kept icing over. I ran the wire through the drain hole as suggested and connected it to a spare 12v power adaptor......success, beer consistently between 33 and 39 degrees, day in and day out. I had to figure out where the temp knob needed to be set after initially getting it down to 22 degrees...oops, but just back it off to around the middle. Simple solution.