Vissani and Johnson Controls

[carlos32]

Hi i'm new to the forum and kegerators. My wife bought me a vissani kegerator from home depot for christmas. After i got it i started researching and found out that it wasn't a good kegerator. The only problem that i have had with the fridge is that it doesnt get cold enough. I tried the adjustment screw as per the repair manual, waited a few hours as the manual said and checked the temp of a cup of water i had in there, no change. Never goes below 43. I ended up adjusting the screw so much it came off. I had to take apart the thermostat to re attach it. Now i can't figure out where the stock location was. So i though i would just get a Johnson Controls A19AAT-2C and have that control it. I took out the thermostat and connected the blue and black wires together thinking that it would keep the compressor constantly on and i plugged in the fridge to the controller. It turns the fridge on and off like normal but the temp inside the cup of water has not changed. Did i wire it wrong? Am i suppose to wire it to the back of the fridge somewhere? I only see wiring instructions for the danby but nothing for the vissani. Any help would be great. I already have a keg of dos XX in there and dont want to return the vissani since it was a gift from my wife. I have also added a pc fan i had laying around to try and circulate the air. I have also attached a pic of the wiring diagram on the back of the fridge.

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[KillianBoy]

carlos32,
Welcome to forum and another gem of a wife. I have a couple of questions:
Is the unit free standing or under-counter? or in a warm place or place without air circulation?
And how long did you wait before testing temperature and how did you take temperature (wired or wireless,calibrated?)?
KB

[carlos32]

Its free standing. Its in my den. Measured with one similar to this Pelouze_THP220C.jpg
I would wait a few hours as the manual stated. The most i ever waited has been 16 hrs without opening the door. Thats been without the controller i just got yesterday. I just now got a wired aquarium thermometer that i plan on using so that i wont have to keep opening the door to check the temp. Is there a way to bypass the thermostat and just use the controller?

[KillianBoy]

carlos32,
I borrowed this from a super member:
"Bypassing the T-stat is a 15 min job only requiring a Phillip head screw driver. Unscrew the 2 screws holding the plastic T\stat mounting housing pull off the t-stat dial knob 1st. Now you will see either 2 or sometimes 3 wires with blade slip clips on the metal T-stat body. If there are 3 wires the green one is a ground and of no concern in this process."
By what pvs6 says if you get the 2 black (as your schematic says) and connect you should bypass thermostat. Though I think you might have 3 or 4 wires from thermostat, one from outlet the other to compressor overload, green (ground) and a 4th which should be the sensor.
OK, so logically if you took the black from outlet and hooked directly to the wire leading to overload, compressor should run nonstop (or until the overload tells it to stop), and IF you don't have ETC hooked between unit and house outlet. Without ETC hooked up, the overload circuit should run compressor to at least that a cup of water should freeze over. If you can't get anything to get below 40 degrees (and unit turns off) with ETC or without, it might be the overload. If unit is not turning off and cup of water isn't freezing, then you might have a refrigerant problem. If you had unit on side and ran immediately after righting you might have to turn unit off and let fluids settle.
So if you have the 2 wires connected, ETC not connected, unit should run non-stop (thermostat bypassed), if it stops before water gets to 32 degrees something is wrong, might have to call a service man.
If unit turns off and ETC connected, it might be settings of ETC.
I'm sorry for all the "mights'" but you have so many things going on don't know what problems are solved and which are created with what you did..
I would disconnect ETC, get a wireless thermometer, and run and see how cold unit gets and turns off. Every time you open the door, it takes about 1 hour to get 35 degrees from ambient another hour to go 5 degrees (at non-stop), maybe only a couple more degrees for another hour.
Read my posts regarding how cold plate works, in a nutshell, by adjusting thermostat cold plate won't get colder, it radiates at a maximum cold temperature (around 25 degrees), thermostat just controls how long it energizes cold plate, not how cold it gets.
So if you ran unit 16 hours non-stop (black wires wired together) and couldn't get colder than 43 degrees something is wrong, if started immediately after having unit on side, you might have to turn unit off and let the fluids settle. If it was upright and/or let unit settle, service might be required. Again sorry I can't be certain but you did so many things not sure what worked and what didn't.
KB

[carlos32]

Ok well after trying everything here i convinced my wife that the vissani sucked and so i now have an upright freezer and converted it. now i have a new problem. I was able to cool the beer down to 38 (took temp from second pour in same glass) it is a keg of dos equis lager. @ 2.7 i set the co2 pressure to 13 and after a while i noticed the psi had climbed to like 18 or 19 kept trying to adjust to keep it at 13 but just kept moving. I finally just swapped over the co2 tank that came with my vissani (which was still full) set it to 13 and put it inside the freezer. checked on it later and it looked like the psi of the bottle and keg line had decreased, and my beer is coming out over carbonated. I have a 10' beer line to slow the pour but don't see how this would affect the carbonation level. is putting the co2 tank in the freezer affect the reading? should i set it at room temp put it in the freezer and forget it? any help would be great. thanks

[KillianBoy]

carlos32,
Again you are trying to do some many things don't know if one thing effects one then changes another so here are some things that are fact.
Changing tanks won't change low or high pressure, putting a warm tank into a cold refrigerator will change the high pressure but not the low.
Going longer line will not change carbonation, it just creates more resistance, that's it.
Leaks in high or low side can cause PSI drift.
Air circulation is needed for any keezer/cold plate kegerator, confirm you moved the PC fan.
OK, now the questions:
What is the temperature of the beer? (latest reading)
How long has the beer been in unit?
What new parts did you buy in addition to the parts the came with Vissani ?
Are you sure the original tank has CO2?
Are you sure the beer line is true beer line or at least food grade and has a 3/16 ID?
What is your settings for the Johnson Controls A19AAT-2CETC?
Where is the sensor, in water, air top or bottom?
Did you put the unit on side during transport, did you let settle upright?
Did you put a buffer (insulation between keg and bottom of unit) under keg?
How are you dispensing beer? (through door, tower or whateva)
Don't know what this means? "should i set it at room temp put it in the freezer and forget it?"

Observations and comments:
Vissani has a sub-par regulator, but if you stabilized it with new CO2 tank then regulator works but may have had a leak while connecting the new tank and when you shifted, leak ended. If you had this drift with old CO2 tank, it maybe near empty (depending on high or low side and how long it was hooked up).
How do you know that "it looked like the psi of the bottle and keg line had decreased" and "my beer is coming out over carbonated"? How can it be less PSI then over-carbonated?
High pressure (as low as 600 PSI) is pushed to regulator which regulates the pressure to < 20 PSI, yes temperature will effect the high but not low.
Low and high PSI can cause foamy beer, if it does taste fizzy, it may have been over carbonated by the first run with new tank (drifting PSI), just shake a vent a couple of times and see. If beer is foamy and tastes fine, just wait at new PSI (set to new beer temperature) and see.
You have to be patient, look through forum for tips, look at my newbie thread. Foam can be caused by ANYTHING, not just over or under carbonation.
Just curious, what was your ETC settings and what was the lowest beer temperature that you got with the Vissani?
KB

[carlos32]

Answers to your questions are in RED. Thank you for your responses.

What is the temperature of the beer? (latest reading) 38
How long has the beer been in unit?3 days
What new parts did you buy in addition to the parts the came with Vissani ? other than what cam with the vissani I bought a through the door conversion kit (5lb co2 tank, ss shank and door mount faucet, new 10' beverage grade line, double gauge regulator, 4' gas hose, and sankey coupler)
Are you sure the original tank has CO2? yes
Are you sure the beer line is true beer line or at least food grade and has a 3/16 ID? yes
What is your settings for the Johnson Controls A19AAT-2CETC? right now i have it set to 28. I have a cup of water in the freezer with a wired aquarium thermostat in it, ran it out the door and have it sitting on top of the freezer. the reading on that is 35.5
Where is the sensor, in water, air top or bottom? ETC sensor is hanging in the air in the center of the freezer
Did you put the unit on side during transport, did you let settle upright? no freezer was transported upright and was never on its side, let it sit for 4 hours before i plugged it in.
Did you put a buffer (insulation between keg and bottom of unit) under keg? no, should there be?
How are you dispensing beer? (through door, tower or whateva) through the door
Don't know what this means? "should i set it at room temp put it in the freezer and forget it?" meaning do i just set the regulator while its hooked up to the keg but before it acclimates to the freezer then put it in the freezer, and not worry about the drop in psi because the cold is affecting it

oh and no i did not install the pc fan in the freezer.

The reason i changed the tanks was because i wanted to see if the new tank (not the vissani one) was leaking or if it was the new double regulator i got. after hooking up the vissani co2 tank to the double regulator (i got from the new kit) the psi didn't climb. it stayed where i set it (13). the only thing that changed was the low side dropped to just before the red. but was reading 800 before i put it in the freezer. Seems like the only problem i have now is the over carbonation.

[KillianBoy]

carlos32,
Please don't take anything I say personal I'm just conveying my concerns and worries:
Are sure you are reading the gauges right?
You said "low side dropped to just before the red", low pressure gauges usually don't have a red zone (especially the MM), the red is usually the the high side.
The high pressure gauge isn't like a gas gauge, warm it reads normally in white to just inside green, cold it reads in the red, say if stabilizes just on edge of red, it won't move at all until just before empty, then slowly falls, this is when you know when to fill tank.
CO2 tanks usually don't go bad (except for steel) or come bad brand new, as long as you turn tank valve full on and full off it should be good, regulators are the ones that sometimes arrive bad (pretty fragile). Could be you had a slow leak when you had Vissani regulator hooked up, then when you changed to MM the leak stopped, hence drifting PSI.
If you saw the PSI rise on the pressure gauge with the red, it is normal after pulling from from cold to warm. I'm sorry if wrong gauge and that wasn't how it was but I'm unsure of the circumstances of the tank changing because of the above statement.
Depending on type of freezer you may or may not need a fan, most stand-alone freezers I have seen are cold plates that are in sides and/or bottom. If it is forced air (blower blowing air from cold plate, like most refrigerators), you don't need a fan.
Depending also where the cold plate is, most are high up with compressor at bottom, if cold plate at bottom you need a buffer between keg and cold plate.
About the ETC, depending on what your setting is (cut-in or cut-out), differential, if factory settings at setpoint 28, the ETC will stop at 28, then turn on at 33. With top unit temperature of 35.5 and no air circulation I can't see how you are getting 38 degree beer.
By your numbers, the beer temperature should be in low 30's, either something is wrong with thermometer or ETC, only other thing that might cause your temperature problem is to make sure you set the freezer thermostat to maximum cold any other setting will screw up ETC.
So confirm if you are using factory settings on ETC and confirm that your low pressure gauge has a red zone, confirm also if the thermometer is calibrated, confirm freezer thermostat set to maximum or bypassed and again how do you know if over-carbonated, is the beer fizzy or are you just assuming that is because of the foam? I'm sorry again if you feel insulted by my questions but your numbers seem off, logically something is wrong, whether factory setting or changed, thermostat not set right, with your ETC settings you should have very cold beer.
KB

[carlos32]

Im not insulted at all, I really appreciate all your help.
I meant to say the high side has the red, and your right its just before the red and hasn't moved. The freezer itself has a vent on the back wall that sounds like is blowing air when the compressor turns on. As far as the etc i just adjust the knob on it to the desired temperature. I do have cold beer, which is a vast improvement over the vissani. The beer has a tingly feeling on the tongue almosy like a soda and you can hear the bubbles pop. Also some rising bubbles. Not a lot of foam, normal foam i guess i would say. Just a little too fizzy. The thermometer i am using i just used out the package. The freezer is set to its maximum setting and the etc is on factory settings. Thanks again for all your help.

[KillianBoy]

carlos32,
Sorry I had to apologize in advance, some extinct members took exception to me asking blunt and/or obvious questions.
Another apology, I thought you had the A419, the analog A19 has set 3.5 differential with compressor turning on at setpoint then turning off 3.5 colder than set point. So basically ETC should turn freezer off at 24.5 degrees. It could be freezer thermostat is shutting off unit before it gets to setpoint, IF setpoint is at 28, up to 36-38 and see what happens.
Most cheap upright freezer use the cold plate, the ones that use forced air are as expensive as chest freezers (which fit 1/2 kegs, which I plan on using). The top sensor may be caught in the air flow from vents and causing 35.5 degree air temperature, make sure any gap in door seal is covered to prevent cold air loss.
The beer seems odd, it sounds like it is over carbonated, yet acts like it's under carbonated.
It reminds me when I froze my keg, turn ETC warmer, test thermometer in crushed ice w/ water (should be 32 degrees) and pour beer into pitcher about 1/4 way, room temperature glass pour, dump in pitcher, the test the next.
KB
BTW did you vent the gas?

[carlos32]

Just be sure, so that I don't screw anything up further. What's the proper way to vent out the gas and how long do I wait before I hook the gas back up?

[KillianBoy]

carlos32,
OK, you didn't vent gas, good, don't. It seems either you are under carbonating the beer or it is in the freezing zone (where water particles are turning into ice).
To vent gas from keg you don't have to disconnect anything just look for the pressure release valve on coupler and tug on it, you should hear a hiss (this means gas is getting get keg and is in keg), turn off valve under the regulator (normal is straight, off is like a cross), then pull on the pressure release, this should vent the gas, you could shake the keg to release gas from beer, but this is only AND ONLY if you are certain you over carbonated beer,
If your beer is a little fizzy but has no head, something strange is going on. It might be the beer is too cold, I would say most likely NOT over carbonated. After venting just turn gas back on, the gas doesn't really push beer out (it does help), gas is there to keep beer from going flat.
So set ETC at 37 degrees, PSI at 12 and wait and see. Next post, confirm setpoint, temperature of 3rd to 5th consecutive glass. Forget about the wired aquarium thermometer, forget about the air temperature, if you want to monitor the air temperature, use a wireless one that uses a remote and place on top of keg. Also describe the flow of beer, speed, color of the flow (white, beer color and how it changes as it flows into glass).
KB