Question about Beverage Air vs. Summit

[linusstick]

Yes I know. It's basically a conversion kit vs. a commercial grade kegerator (BM23-2). I just bought the Summit Dual from this site, but I'm not happy with the non-cooled tower and the excessive foam in each beer every time. I'm just curious as to how loud the BevAir will be in a living room sized room. It's basically a bar and won't be a normal living space but I don't want something so noisy that it's annoying.

[djc]

One of the few complaints about the BM23 is noise. You can buy a tower cooler for around $35 or make one for about $25. As I and others have mentioned to you in other threads, the foam on every pour is not because you don't have a tower cooler. The foam on your first pour is from not having a tower cooler. The remainder of the foam is from not being balanced. The Bev Air will not solve your balance problems.

[PointPleasantNJBeerguy]

I personally don't think its that loud.

Here is a test I did when this question came up on another forum.Used a I phone decibel app.

My household frig/freezer running (@55dbs)
Bevair at idle evaporator fan always runs pushes about same (@52-55dbs)
Bevair when compressor is running(@62-65dbs)
65dbs would be a normal conversations dbs rating.

Also check out my crappy youtube video of my BM23 for a further idea on the sound of a BM23 running.
Beverage Air BM23 - YouTube

[stn]

One of the few complaints about the BM23 is noise. You can buy a tower cooler for around $35 or make one for about $25. As I and others have mentioned to you in other threads, the foam on every pour is not because you don't have a tower cooler. The foam on your first pour is from not having a tower cooler. The remainder of the foam is from not being balanced. The Bev Air will not solve your balance problems.

You can lead a horse to water...........

Linusstick, it seems that the only part you picked up from the thread I referred you to earlier was the part about a tower cooler, when I actually directed you to the balancing information that starts just after that. A tower cooler is helpful, for sure, and it is massively less expensive to make one then to replace your kegerator. That is what I did. However, I can assure you from months of personal experience trying everything but learning how to balance my system, that you will continue to have foam problems until you learn to balance.

Once your system is balanced, then a tower cooler and longer beer lines can help fine tune your system to even better control foam, but as long as you are guessing at and changing psi it's just a crap shoot.

[KillianBoy]

linusstick,

Noise is subjective, if you think the Summit is noisy but tolerable, then you probably won't like the noise from any commercial unit. Some members have asked and been told noise is tolerable but when they got it up and running found noise to be too much, base what the Summit does, then figure on commercial unit being a bit noisier and being on most of the time (evaporator fan and shorter compressor on and off times)
Listen to other members regarding foam and tower cooler:
I had this on my newbie thread,
Foam can be caused by ANYTHING:
Short beer line can cause turbulent beer which causes foam
Dirty gear can cause foam
No air circulation can cause foam (on 1st to 3rd beer)
Dirty glassware can cause foam
Frozen glasses can cause foam
Beer that is too warm and too cold can cause foam (to PSI)
Kinked lines can cause foam
Beer line too close to cold plate can cause foam
Incorrect gear can cause foam
CO2 leak can cause foam
Tower cooler will solve air circulation problems and 1st beer foam only. Try this, pour 1 pitcher of beer, then pull 1 pint in room temperature glass if really foamy on pint, then a tower cooler won't solve your foam problem, if you have a good pour, then tower cooler might help.
If you are just a weekend draft beer drinker, your problem might be dirty faucet and shank, could also be check ball is causing foam, etc. So don't blame the foam just on tower cooler not being there, foam can be caused by anything.
Go by the numbers make sure your gear is put together right and clean, beer line coiled neatly on keg, room temperature glasses, make sure lines are 6+ feet, next post describe flow of beer (color of flow and speed), to compare your unit to others you checked with regarding foam, ask what units they have and what mods they made and how often they drink beer and most important what PSI they set to what beer.
KB

[linusstick]

I will elaborate

You can lead a horse to water...........

Linusstick, it seems that the only part you picked up from the thread I referred you to earlier was the part about a tower cooler, when I actually directed you to the balancing information that starts just after that. A tower cooler is helpful, for sure, and it is massively less expensive to make one then to replace your kegerator. That is what I did. However, I can assure you from months of personal experience trying everything but learning how to balance my system, that you will continue to have foam problems until you learn to balance.

Once your system is balanced, then a tower cooler and longer beer lines can help fine tune your system to even better control foam, but as long as you are guessing at and changing psi it's just a crap shoot.

I used that balancing info and my foaming problem is minimal. With each pour I am still getting rid of a little foam but not much. The beer, however, is not as cold as I hoped. My home goes through a lot of beer (me, gf and entertaining a lot). The bottled beer in my fridge is always a lot colder than the draft. That is something I am guessing can't be changed by lines/balance. I'd like any suggestions to get the beer colder. There's no thermostat . If fans are the answer, I'm game. Don't get me wrong. The beer is good. Foam is reasonable, I'd just like it to be colder. Thanks for the help guys
Rest assured I'm not a big dumb Frankenstein twisting knobs and turning dials. I have a grasp on a lot of this, just want colder pours and don't see how I can get that without replacing. Would love some suggestions, though. Don't have the exact temps, just know by taste that it's not as cold as I usually have

[KillianBoy]

linusstick,
Thank you for reading and understanding what others have posted (I just re-read your post, how can you balance beer without temperature?). I really hate to ask but did you read the instructions that came with unit?
I have an PDF version of the SBC-500 instructions:

"Control is located on rear. First set the control at NORMAL position, WAIT 24 hours to check the temperature then adjust temperature control, if needed."

So you should have a thermostat (no matter which kegerator, every one I have seen here on forum has one) it should be in back, I'm sorry if this isn't your model but you never posted model. If it is in back then IF you have it enclosed in a bar, then you will never get unit down in temperature until you vent heat.
If you need help with foam, post model, beer v/v, PSI setting and temperature of the beer.

Most guys I know keep the refrigerator that they have their beer in pretty cold (8-9 of 10 setting), not sure if you can get the draft beer to comparable temperature (cold temperature + small container + small amount of beer), the coldest is about 36 degrees for kegerator beer. When you do find thermostat, set around 3/4 max temperature, this should get to at least 38-40 degrees.
KB

[djc]

If you can't tell us what temperature "not cold enough is" then you really haven't balanced your system because it can't be done with an exact value. Keep in mind after you change your temperature you will need to balance to that new value, and your pressure will need to go lower.

[stn]

So we've switched gears from a foam issue to a cooling issue? If your foam problems have been resolved, then that's good news and congrats - however, I'd respectfully suggest that it is temporary luck. If/when your foam problem returns, come back to the prior discussions on balancing. Until then, I am not going to talk about the b-word anymore, other than to reiterate that it is a precise calculation that must be made with accurate temp and v/v numbers. Do that, and you won't have to get rid of any foam (assuming you don't have other system issues such as worn or dirty parts.)

As far as getting your beer colder, follow KB's instructions below. If that doesn't work, I'd suggest having the unit serviced. Even though it's new, you could have a problem with the thermostat or cooling system. My kegerator is only about 18 months old, and from the day I bought it until just a few weeks ago, I was pouring 40 degree beer with the temperature set on max cold (set at 7 out of 1-7.) No amount of insulation, fans, etc., made any difference. I just accepted that my kegerator couldn't get the beer any colder.

Then a few weeks ago a buddy who owns an appliance company was over for a pint, so he took a look at it, and lo and behold there was a 4 way toggle setting on the thermistor that was set incorrectly (and in the process I got quite an education on the difference in a thermistor system vs. a mechanical thermostat.) Anywho, a Google search and a toggle adjustment later, and I'm now pouring 33 degree beer with the temp control set at 3. That's actually a little too cold for my taste, so I'm gradually backing it off every couple of days until I get to 37-38 degrees (and making the corresponding adjustment to the psi................)

I'd sure check out all possibilities before replacing a new kegerator just to get colder beer and/or a tower cooler. Service should be under warranty, and again a tower cooler is easy and inexpensive to make.

And we don't think you're a Frankenstein twisting knobs and turning dials. We're just fervent supporters of our fellow draft enthusiasts and want to make sure you get that perfect pour - even if we have to beat it into ya...

[linusstick]

So we've switched gears from a foam issue to a cooling issue? If your foam problems have been resolved, then that's good news and congrats - however, I'd respectfully suggest that it is temporary luck. If/when your foam problem returns, come back to the prior discussions on balancing. Until then, I am not going to talk about the b-word anymore, other than to reiterate that it is a precise calculation that must be made with accurate temp and v/v numbers. Do that, and you won't have to get rid of any foam (assuming you don't have other system issues such as worn or dirty parts.)

As far as getting your beer colder, follow KB's instructions below. If that doesn't work, I'd suggest having the unit serviced. Even though it's new, you could have a problem with the thermostat or cooling system. My kegerator is only about 18 months old, and from the day I bought it until just a few weeks ago, I was pouring 40 degree beer with the temperature set on max cold (set at 7 out of 1-7.) No amount of insulation, fans, etc., made any difference. I just accepted that my kegerator couldn't get the beer any colder.

Then a few weeks ago a buddy who owns an appliance company was over for a pint, so he took a look at it, and lo and behold there was a 4 way toggle setting on the thermistor that was set incorrectly (and in the process I got quite an education on the difference in a thermistor system vs. a mechanical thermostat.) Anywho, a Google search and a toggle adjustment later, and I'm now pouring 33 degree beer with the temp control set at 3. That's actually a little too cold for my taste, so I'm gradually backing it off every couple of days until I get to 37-38 degrees (and making the corresponding adjustment to the psi................)

I'd sure check out all possibilities before replacing a new kegerator just to get colder beer and/or a tower cooler. Service should be under warranty, and again a tower cooler is easy and inexpensive to make.

And we don't think you're a Frankenstein twisting knobs and turning dials. We're just fervent supporters of our fellow draft enthusiasts and want to make sure you get that perfect pour - even if we have to beat it into ya...

Hahahah....I get it. I just post things in haste to get that instant answer and then before I get any replies I figure it out. Thanks for the help and I appreciate it

[djc]

Hahahah....I get it. I just post things in haste to get that instant answer and then before I get any replies I figure it out. Thanks for the help and I appreciate it

So you could essentially save yourself time by just not posting since you always figure things out?!?!?

[KillianBoy]

linusstick,

Gee I thought I was the harsh one, I was going to leave it be but since djc made a point, I just want to add my 2 cents:
OK, what do you mean by "I get it" and "I figure (d) it out" can you post how these problems were resolved:
Maybe, that you found thermistor as djc posted "behold there was a 4 way toggle setting on the thermistor"
or That you read instructions and found thermostat.
or you get how to balance and that you need to find temperature of beer before you can balance.

Or maybe you set PSI low and found it poured "perfect pints"
or maybe as djc said it's a "Sorry, my bad" moment and , "never mind, I got it".

Since some members spent the time to help you, can you spend a little time to mention how your problem was solved?
Thanks,
KB

[linusstick]

So you could essentially save yourself time by just not posting since you always figure things out?!?!?

Yes. You are 100% right. Sorry for trying to be social to this group. Same to the guy below me. To be honest, I don't blame you. In an internet forum/board where I've been a member for many years, when a new guy comes around and asks the same (what I perceive to be) dumb question I've heard a million times I give smart assed and condescending remarks too. I accept my place and will not make a peep here anymore unless I take a few days to research what I'm going to ask. And if you're offended because I insinuated that I can "figure things out" without your all-knowing power, I didn't. I found it elsewhere online before I got the reply

[KillianBoy]

linusstick
I don't think any of us were offended that you "insinuated that I can "figure things out" without your all-knowing power", I guess you feel we took offense that you found the answer yourself and/or elsewhere, this isn't where I'm coming from.
One of my pet peeves is when a members say "I have foam, I can't get to temperature, help, help", then the next post from OP is "Oh, thanks, I got it", without ANY mention of what OP did to solve problem. Most moderators here are more than willing to answer any question put forth, dumb or not, but this is a informative forum, people come here to solve their problems, when you posted:

"Hahahah....I get it"

I don't think this will help ANYONE, a post saying "I forgot this..." or " I did this...." would be helpful, if you don't want too be helpful, fine, but this is where I came from in my reply, not that I felt offended or was smart-assed and condescending, I just was noting that above post helps no one, maybe except for you.
KB

[djc]

Yes. You are 100% right. Sorry for trying to be social to this group. Same to the guy below me. To be honest, I don't blame you. In an internet forum/board where I've been a member for many years, when a new guy comes around and asks the same (what I perceive to be) dumb question I've heard a million times I give smart assed and condescending remarks too. I accept my place and will not make a peep here anymore unless I take a few days to research what I'm going to ask. And if you're offended because I insinuated that I can "figure things out" without your all-knowing power, I didn't. I found it elsewhere online before I got the reply

I think from the perspective of someone trying to help, you are in the category of "hard to help". You started three very closely related threads in two days, abandoned two of them and gave poor answers to members questions while entertaining that you knew how to fix the issues when based on your follow up threads / questions that didn't seem to be the case. You got responses, sometimes multiple responses, to your questions in a few hours only to come back a day later and say such insightful things as "I get it". As KB pointed out, this thread and the other two are nearly worthless for someone else trying to learn from others experiences and I still question whether or not you do get it. Time and foam will tell.