Arrogant Bastard gas pressure

[HiBoost]

Hey guys!

I've always run my gas at 12psi or so and that's worked great for everything from Heineken to Sierra Nevada Pale Ale to Boulevard Wheat etc... well, now our area is finally able to get Stone products so I'm picking up a keg of Arrogant Bastard today. I called Stone just to be anal and was shocked when they told me to run 5psi??? They said 12 would just foam like crazy. Does that sound right? Never heard of any beer wanting that low of pressure... My setup is an under-counter kegerator with fairly short lines, maybe 4' total? The guy said with short lines it needs lower pressure. I don't know what to think now...

Thanks!

[Sketch]

You've gotten lucky with the 12psi then. Picking a number and running it is not how it works, you need to know the v/v and cross reference it with the beer temp and PSI on a carbonation levels chart.

You can read this thread the full explanation of how it works, plus some extra info: http://www.micromatic.com/forum/us-e...e-read-me.html

Call Stone back and ask for the Volumes Of Co2 (v/v) for a keg of Arrogant Bastard. If the person answering doesn't know, ask to speak to someone who would - possibly a brewer.

You need to balance your system to the beer, not to your length of line. You probaly have 5 feet of line, not 4, as 5 is the standard length. You can buy longer line if you want to slow the flow of beer down - but do not adjust PSI for this purpose. If you apply 5 psi, it might flow at the right rate, but your beer will lose carbonation and become flat.

[djc]

X2 what Sketch said. I had Stone IPA on tap earlier this year and the best indication of v/v they would give me was "all our beers are between 2.5 and 2.6". It was enough for me to get in the ball park and get balance. Start shooting for 2.55 and see how it goes.

[HiBoost]

Thanks. So it's clear that "5" is crazy from that chart. I won't know my exact temp until I get the keg tonight and it reaches equilibrium probably tomorrow sometime, but in the past it has always been around 38 (I know you said it needs to be exact). That other thread says Stone ABA is 2.5 so at 38 deg that would be roughly 11.7psi (I'm at 1000' so I'm adding 0.5psi for that)... now the chance that my regulator is accurate enough that I can tell 11.7 from 11.5 or 12.0 is probably fairly slim. But in any case I know not to set it anywhere near 5!

On a side note, maybe it's the geek in me but it would be pretty sweet to have a coupler that could read the beer temp and then auto-adjust the gas pressure based on whatever target volumes of co2 you had preset. Overkill sure, but a neat thing to ponder... anyway, thanks for the info!!

[HiBoost]

Thanks djc. If I go with 2.55 then my lucky 12psi seems to be just right again lol. Let me ask another question. Let's say I had a mystery beer with an unknown volumes of co2. If I set a pressure and I get a nice head without excessive foam is that safe to proclaim as "good"? Or is it possible to have it way off and not have any visible symptoms in the pour?

[djc]

You can't be too far off and have a good looking pour at reasonable / normal speed, so if you are pouring well you are on target.

[HiBoost]

So my temp seems to be right at 42. So that would call for 14psi... 42 tastes just right to me in terms of coldness, but do i need to worry about the keg spoiling at that temp? It'll take me a few months to get through it... Basically I need to decide if I should drop the temp or raise the pressure at this point.

[djc]

It will be fine in terms of temp. Over time all hop forward beers will start to lose their hopiness. The higher ABV should help it last longer than a lower ABV beer. I find that a log of hoppy beer will fade before I can finish it, and by that point my palate had gotten used to it and it is time for something different anyway.

[Sketch]

The only additional thing I will add to DJC's comment is that the warmer the beer, the harder it can be to keep it balanced and minimize foaming. I do not know this first hand, only learning from the comments and experiences of others.

If balance becomes an issue, knock it down to a few degrees and adjust psi accordingly. If you have to do this and still prefer a warmer temp - just pour one and let it rest for a few minutes prior to consumption.

[HiBoost]

Great thanks guys! And good point about the fact that the beer can sit a few minutes prior to drinking to warm slightly.

[cubby_swans]

but do i need to worry about the keg spoiling at that temp?

NO. Worst beer myth ever that beer somehow magically spoils the instant it gets over 40 degrees or so. Beer changes flavors with age (sometimes for the better, even) but it doesn't go rotten like eggs or milk. There are millions of cans and bottles sitting on shelves in stores at room temperature for months that do not spoil.

[HiBoost]

Ok. Glad you brought that up. The rationalization I had heard in the past was that cans and bottles and anything that could potentially be at room temperature was pasteurized, whereas kegs that would be always refrigerated, were not. This was also the explanation given for why keg beer tasted better. So, is that all BS?

[cubby_swans]

Ok. Glad you brought that up. The rationalization I had heard in the past was that cans and bottles and anything that could potentially be at room temperature was pasteurized, whereas kegs that would be always refrigerated, were not. This was also the explanation given for why keg beer tasted better. So, is that all BS?

Well, it's not all BS. Just mostly.

The mega beer companies do pasteurize their bottles and cans. 99% of micro/craft breweries could not possibly afford such a process, and therefore do not pasteurize their bottles/cans. Many of your craft beer companies put beer in bottles/cans/kegs from the exact same tank. There are dozens of possibilites as to why one may taste better than the other.

Beer flavor profiles certainly change with age, and usually not for the better. Most beers are best enjoyed fresh. Hop flavors and other flavors drop off, etc. I think most beers start to become less than desirable after 4-6 months. Beer 'ages' quicker at warmer temperatures for sure, but the difference between 38 and 42 for is not going to result in any noticeable difference over the course of a few months.

Another factor is the bottling/canning method. If any oxygen is in the headspace of the can or the bottle, the beer will oxidize over time. This leads to what many describe as a wet cardboard taste, or what I call stale. There should be no oxygen in the headspace of a keg. Party pumps pump air into a keg and introduce oxygen and do not replace the co2. This is why party pump kegs need to be killed in 1-2 days. The beer goes flat and oxidizes.

So beers handled/stored at warmer temperatures certainly age faster, but it is a perpetuated myth that unpasteurized beers over 40F for any length of time are going to 'go bad'.

I'm pretty sure Stone does not pasteurize their bottles.

And this is not conjecture. I am one of these uber beer nerds who cellars beers. I have cases of various beers stored in my basement from years gone by. Have had 5+ year old bottles of unpasteurized beers that were stored around 60F-65F in my basement that were not spoiled. Not all of them tasted great. Some tasted amazing. It's an experiment which is often hit or miss. Also, 3 or 4 years ago we tapped a keg of a Cantillon lambic that had been in one guys basement since the mid-90's. That one was outstanding.

[aspinallar]

I wonder why the mega beer companies pasteurize their beer at all? I can see the cost, but what's the benefit?

[aspinallar]

Wondering also. Do the mega beer manufacturers pasteurize the kegs as well as the bottles?

Is there really no difference between the beer from the can, bottle or keg? (or is it all in my mind)