Danby Kegerator Improvements

[psychodad]

There seems to be quite a bit of problems associated with Danby and other competing brands of keg coolers in Danby's price range. One of the most common problems I think is foamy beer. This foam problem is often blamed on the nonstandard faucet. And while I think that may be true to a certain degree, I think most of the problem stems from the fact that the liquid temperature of the beer does not get to 36-38 degrees Fahrenheit. Just because the nifty looking digital display says 36 degrees, it doesn't mean that the cabinet temperature is actually 36 degrees and it certainly doesn't mean that the beer temperature is 36 degrees.

Now none of this is to say that you should be complacent with Danby's (or whoever made your keg cooler) problems. If you have the opportunity to return your cooler and you feel that the best option, then do so. As it is, I'm going to make the best of it and maybe not only make my keg cooler better, but perhaps even great. I've already done a couple of inexpensive little changes which I intend to be only temporary. I'll share them and throw out some ideas that I plan on doing in the future as well. I won't imply that anyone should do these things or take any blame if you mess up your kegerator or spoil a keg of beer.

The first thing I decided was that to control liquid temperature (which is what we want to do) I needed to know the liquid temperature. The temperature sensor in the Danby is not a very good one to begin with. Also I don't think it is in the best location. I pulled the grilled cover that holds the sensor and removed it. I then took a glass of water and placed it in the back of the cooler and then submerged the sensor. The reason I did this was because when I was comparing the temperature displayed on the Danby digital display with my Fluke 87V, I found several degrees difference. When I placed the Fluke's temperature lead in a glass of water after 24 hours, I was indicating 40 degrees Fahrenheit while Danby showed me 36. This was not good. I then placed the Danby temp sensor in the same glass as the Fluke and then they were in agreement within a degree. Within minutes the temperature in the glass was down to 36 and shortly after that my beer was much colder and far better tasting. This of course is a temporary fix. I have a temperature switch that is going to assume the duties of compressor control. http://www.grainger.com/Grainger/wwg...?ItemKey=2E728 This switch has a 3-1/2 degree differential so short cycling the compressor I hope won’t be a problem. I'll leave the sensor hooked up because I do like to walk by and have an idea what the temperature is.

In the Danby cooler I have, the fan is smaller than the CPU fan on my computer. This fan is for the most part useless. I doubt one would notice if this thing was operational or not. I took a trip to the fan aisle and picked up a cheap 6 or 7 inch fan. I removed the top of the cooler and routed the cord through the hole for the tower, across the top of the cooler to the back and then plugged it into the wall. My first thought was to place it on top of the keg pointing up towards the tower but I found I got better results hanging it off the top of the keg blowing downwards. By blowing the air down the cooling element at the back of the unit, I found that my liquid temperature got colder and less ice formed on the cooling element. This also is temporary. I plan on adding a blower that will duct cooler air from the bottom of the cabinet to the tower as well as a fan to circulate air inside the cabinet. http://www.micromatic.com/draft-keg-...pid-2C782.html

Taking control of the compressor away from Danby is going to mean that I will no longer have automatic defrost. This shouldn't be a big problem. For those that remember freezers before automatic defrost, it wasn't quite as bad as beating clothes on a rock down by the river or chopping wood. Given that the frequent opening of the door contributed to frost buildup in those old units and that a kegerator

[B-Belly]

Psychodad, How did it work out? I just bought one from Home Depot for $350 (scratch and dent) and have the same huge temp differential. Just where is the bulb for the thermocouple? I was so ticked off that I ordered a $100 industrial temp controller. I think I need to hotwire it to the compressor, so the fan (?) will still work. My keg temp on the outside has been holding at 41.5 to 43 degrees. Not sure what the liquid temp is, but I'll bet it is somewhere around 41 degrees. RESULT.... my MGD is a foamy mess. Took the co2 down to 5 psi and slowed the foam a little. At least I can get 3/4 glass of beer after it settles out. I will try to find the temp bulb and soak it.(hopefullly it is waterproof?)
One more thing, is the tower not being cooled a problem? It has minimal insulation. The spigot will condensate after the first draw, so I am thinking the warm tower effect only applies the the first draw.
B-Belly

[psychodad]

Them temperature sensor is on the left, hear the bottom behind a plastic grill. I pulled mine out and put it in a cup of water to read liquid temperature and it is waterproof enough for that. If you lower your co2 to 5 psi, you will let your beer go flat. And as far as the warm tower, I only have a problem with the first draw. But it still needs adressed I think.

http://forums.the-hole.net/

[B-Belly]

Ok, I tried the sensor in a glass thing, but the glass is too close to the cooling plate (wire is only 3" long). I extended the temp sensor 18" and put it in a glass of water on top of the keg. That made a major difference. Beer is still a little warm (39F) but much better than 43-45F. I think the problem is the cycle of this cooler. As soon as it gets to 34F, it starts to warm and continues to warm to 47F. I can't wait for my new controller to get here to cut the differential down to +-2F. Set a 36 and should swing from 34 to 38. Also I purchased a 15cfm blower. I want to run a hose up the tower to get cold air up there. Not sure how far up the tower I should run the hose, so a little experimenting is in store for me. Also, not sure if the rubber coating on the Pony Keg (MGD) is hampering the cold saturation. If this keeps up, I'll hsve more money tied up in upgrades than I have in the original Purchase!
B-B

BEER--- the perfect FOOD!

[Scott Zuhse]

quote:Normally you can mount the blower in an area out of the way of the keg and then route the flex tube up the tower so that it stops right at the back of the shank. Hook it to the clamp ear. If this refrigerator has the plate technology, try to mount the blower so that the intake is able to acquire the coldest air possible.

If the keg has warmed the jacket actually acts as an insulator. So the answer would be yes if you are in the forties and what to cool down to 38F.

Would this thermometer work for a source of liquid for the temperature probe? Possibly the thermometer can be removed and replaced with the probe.

Scott Zuhse, Instructor Micro Matic Dispense Institute

[psychodad]

quote:Originally posted by Scott ZuhseWould this thermometer work for a source of liquid for the temperature probe? Possibly the thermometer can be removed and replaced with the probe.

That would likely work. But the same thing can be done cheaper with a test tube and rubber stopper.

I like the lengthening wires suggestion B-Belly had. That is on my to do list as well.

http://forums.the-hole.net/

[psychodad]

I finally got around to installing the new temperature switch and permenantly wiring in the fan. Pictures and a writeup are here http://forums.the-hole.net/kegerator/danby.htm

Thus far this has turned out better than I had hoped.

http://forums.the-hole.net/

[chadschloss78]

Well I finally got a digital camera to post pictures of my setup. Thanks to all the people on this forum, I have a perfect kegerator. 38 degree beer from the first pour. It started it's life as a used Danby I got from my friend, now the only thing I am using from that is the compressor and cosmetics. I have enlarged the 1.5" hole to the tower to 3", added a blower and tubing to cool the tower, added a 4" fan inside to circulate the air, added a digital thermostat, added more insulation ontop the fridge box under the tower for better cooling, added all new parts from MicroMatic from the nicest regulator to all new stainless parts, all new beer and gas line, and a stainless coupler. This was my first attempt at a kegerator. If I had to do it again, I would definately do a freezer or fridge conversion. For the temperature settings for the new thermostat, I have it set to a 2 degree differential, with the air temp set at 37. So when it reaches 38, it cycles down to 35 and shuts off. I put the probe in a few places, but where It seems the best is right under the bottom of the keg. There is a hole near the bottom of the keg where I put the probe (on the bottom of the beer) and it works great. Here are the pics. I didn't get a chance to clean it before I took the pics.

[chadschloss78]

Here are some more pics:

[psychodad]

I'm glad this worked out for you. How do you like that regulator setup? It looks like a much better regulator than the one that came with the Danby. I don't know why, but I've always felt like the Danby regulator was a little wishy washy.

[chadschloss78]

That regulator is real easy to dial in compared to the one that came with it from draught technologies. I had a leak in the one that came with it at the shutoff valve. My buddy who I bought this from said it was replaced by danby two times before for the same problem. The danby regulator jumped around so much it was hard to set. I would get it close to 12 psi, tap on the cover and it would jump to 14 psi, so i never knew where it was set. This one has a knob which you can turn instead of using a screwdriver too.

[psychodad]

I think I'll ask Santa for one of these: http://www.micromatic.com/draft-keg-...ils#tabcontent

[mhabby]

CHADSCHLOSS78-
Great post regarding your Danby improvements. I got a Danby for Christmas and am having same temperature/foam issues. I have a couple of questions if you don't mind. First, do you think it is necessary for both the blower as well as the fan? I would definitely like to put a blower in to get air to tower. Did you hard wire your controller and fan to the Danby, or is it all run seperately? I would rteally like to re-create your set-up. I saw pictures, but was wondering if you posted a step by step as far as wiring. Also, have you now bypassed the auto defrost capability of the Danby and has this been an issue? Lastly, do you have any photos and details if your drip pan? Does it have a drain? Sorry for all the questions and thanks in advance!

[chadschloss78]

CHADSCHLOSS78-
Great post regarding your Danby improvements. I got a Danby for Christmas and am having same temperature/foam issues. I have a couple of questions if you don't mind. First, do you think it is necessary for both the blower as well as the fan? I would definitely like to put a blower in to get air to tower. Did you hard wire your controller and fan to the Danby, or is it all run seperately? I would rteally like to re-create your set-up. I saw pictures, but was wondering if you posted a step by step as far as wiring. Also, have you now bypassed the auto defrost capability of the Danby and has this been an issue? Lastly, do you have any photos and details if your drip pan? Does it have a drain? Sorry for all the questions and thanks in advance!


sorry it's taken me so long to get back to you. about the 2 fans: it is critical to get air up in the tower. that blower is a must. the other must is enlarging the hole size. you need a 3" hole instead of the 1.5" hole they left there. the air needs a way to return to the refridgerator area. the hose from the blower will barely make it in there and it will supply air, but won't be able to return very well. so definately do those two things. the other fan i added at the same time because i talked with a repair man who told me that they need some sort of circulation inside there to maintain temperature. if you look at any refridgerator, they have a fan to circulate the air. now i think you can get away without using one, but i wanted to make sure i did all this work at the same time. might have been overkill, but i like it. yes i did hardwire the temp controller to the danby. i just replied to a post you and psychodad were talking about, check it out. no i ddnt take step by step pics, i didnt have a camera at the time, wish i did. i might do that though, as i now have another danby from my friend, he wantsme to do the same to his kegerator. he is using mine right now and loves it. no more auto defrost with the new controller. if you have all the door seals and air leaks out, defrosting should not be an issue, i have not had to do that with mine but what someone on here said is that when they change kegs, they unplug the unit and clean the beer lines, and let it defrost then. the drip pan i just cut with a dremel tool, rough cut and used plumbers putty to seal around it. i drilled a 1/2" hole in the top for the drain. there was/is nothing there except foam. also i added a layer of foam ontip the kegerator under the plastic cover. i used left over carpet padding i had laying around.. thought that might help keep it colder but not sure that it helps at all. hope this helps. -chad

[TerryM]

Chadschloss78 ... some questions:

1) What parts did you use for the gas line thru-port (very clean installation IMO)?

2) What is the size of the interior circulating fan? Where did you purchase it?

3) Is the fan always on, or does it cycle with the compressor?

Thanks.

tm

[chadschloss78]

Originally Posted by TerryM

Chadschloss78 ... some questions:

1) What parts did you use for the gas line thru-port (very clean installation IMO)?

2) What is the size of the interior circulating fan? Where did you purchase it?

3) Is the fan always on, or does it cycle with the compressor?

Thanks.

tm

WHat do you mean gas-line thru port? the interior fan is 4" 110v muffin fan and was a spare fan I had laying around, it is made by comair rotron i think.. you can find 12v versions of this fan also.. it is powered on at all times adn so is the other fan (blower) to the tower.

[TerryM]

The red gas line exits the regulator then goes into some kind of fitting (for lack of a better term to use) on the back of the fridge.

I was inquiring about that fitting.

[chadschloss78]

it came with the danby kegerator.. dont know where you would find it bt i'm sure you could find a grommit of the same size and use that.

[psychodad]

I think that's just the grommet that was already on the Danby to protect the line.

[mhabby]

First off, Thank you very much to Psychodad and Chadschloss78 for not only their input on improving the Danby Kegerator, but also their patience with all my questions. I finished my Danby modifications and I now have one nice kegerator. I didn't really research kegerators much (as I usually do when purchasing things) as I wasn't really in the market for one. I saw one new and unused that someone was selling for $370, so I purchased it on a whim. I had the same foam and temperature issues as everyone else and learned from this web site that the problem was largely due to no cold air getting up to tower. The modifications I made cost approx. $170, which I still believe is worth it, because I was not able to find a kegerator which came with a blower to circulate air to the tower for under $900.

My modifications were mostly the same as Chadschloss78 did to his, minus installation of drip pan. I took tower and cover off, found control panel, and cut black and red wires going into control panel, and then connected the black and red going back to compressor. I also capped the red and the black wires going into the control panel. This essentially took control away from Danby (one could argue they lost control when they designed this thing .

Then I drilled the hole to the tower to 3". I purchased the same Dayton fan that Micromatic and Grainger sells (I found it for alot less than both places...If interested, send me a PM and I'll tell you where I got it). I found a rubber pvc pipe connector with 3" outside diameter, which I used to seal the new hole along with some plumbers puddy. I puchase the 1.5" tubing at Home Depot, which worked perfectly to take cold air from Dayton Blower to tower, and left plenty of room for return air. I also puchased a 4" 110V muffin fan. My next purchase was a Brewers Edge temperature controller. This controler has both a male plug (for power of course) and a female plug, which becomes hot when the teperature is higher than your set temperature plus differential, and becomes cold when temp. drops below set temp. and differential. I have mine set at 37 with 2 degree differential. I simply plugged the Danby power cord into the controllers female plug. For the two fans, I simply opened the Brewers Edge controller and ran wire from the black and white wire on the hot side to the fans. Wired as such, thefans run constantly.

Finally, I puchased a stainless Perlick faucet, and a new Micromatic CO2 regulator. Why? Simply because Chadschloss78 did, and I figured if I am going to do this, I should probably do it right. If I can figure out how to post pictures, I will do so below. Thanks again Psychodad and Chadschloss78 for helping me avoid crying over spilled beer foam!

[lunkhead]

I too want to thank the people on this forum for without their work in trying to get these danbys to work right i was ready to put a stick of dynamite in mine. I bought it new early last summer and was having the usual problems, warm, foamy beer. But when I set the thing up out of the box, I thought the beer line was way too long (6ft) so I shortened it to 2.5 ft. So I really had problems. Well after drinking a dozen or so warm foamy kegs it was time to hit the internet and I found this site while trying to find a service manual for my danby. I figured I could modify the temp controller if I could get a schematic for it. Well psychodad sent me off on a different track. Let's take a look at the temp sensor. I removed it and took resistance readings at various temps and found it had a negative temp coefficient ( temp down, res goes up). Putting a resistor in series with the sensor would only raise the temp in the unit but putting a resistor in parallel with the sensor would should make the unit cycle cooler. It did. After trying several values over a 2 weeks I ended up with a 33k ohm value. The unit will now just lightly ice over about half the surface of a 2 gal bucket of water at the lowest setting, 36deg. Please note that the readings on the display are not accurate now but after 2weeks of testing the actual temps are 5-6 deg cooler than the display. Shortened beer line, quick trip the the Micro Matic web site and it's now back to 6ft at 3/16 inch. Getting cool air into the tower. I had added extra layers of insulation so the inside dia of the cooling tower was 2" now but how to blow cold air up there. Trying to keep my costs down, I had a some 3/4" thin wall copper pipe that would fit into the bottom opening. After figuring out the area of the 3 circles (the pipe, beer line & tower opening) There was plenty of space to vent the air back into the unit. I found that fans just won't blow air into a 3/4" pipe. So I found a 24volt 5" blower on line for $6.00. What a difference!!! The thing moved too much air. I eventually ended up running it at 7.8v (from a 6v dc wall transformer I had laying around) I only needed to place the pipe over the 1" X 2" opening of the blower and had good return flow from the bottom of the tower. The top opening of the pipe is about 1.5" from where it bends into the faucet. With a couple of elbows and straight section of pipe I mounted the blower near the bottom of the cooling plate. The blower puts out enough air from the opening that I have it set up to blow up the pipe and across the cooling plate. Fired it all up set the thermostat at 37deg and put in a 1/4 keg of mic lite. The results, pressure now set to 13 psi, beer temp 34 deg in the glass (room temp) About 1" of foam on the first pull of the day about half inch there after. Thankyou, thankyou, thankyou to the folks here at this forum. In doing this the way that I did I wanted to keep the cost as low as possible, using what I had lying around, I've think I've spent about $30-35. Plus this is all completly reversable as I have not added or modified any holes existing in the unit. Yes the temp display still shows the 8 deg temp swing as it cycles on/off but with a refer thermometer