Dunk the Whole Thing

[twhayes7]

Still trying to work out a CO2 leak.

I read on a ReelBeer Forum the suggestion of dunking the tank and the regulator in a tub of water to see where leaks are:

Need help finding a slow CO2 leak - Realbeer.com Beer Community

The only concern mentioned was whether the regulator could take being submerged. Otherwise, they suggested bagging the regulator and seeing if the bag inflates.

I tried both a spray bottle of soapy water and a spray bottle of windex, but to no avail. I didn't see anything shocking, and I didn't see anything subtle either. But, as I went through the last tank in 15 days, I don't want to believe there's no leak.

Anyone have any thoughts on this approach? Or does anyone here know whether MicroMatic regulators (mine is a dual regulator) will suffer if submerged in water?

If this is not recommended I may just take the regulator apart and put it back together again.

[edramshaw]

I am not sure if they can handle being submerged. Perhaps Scott will have some insight there. Check the other end of your gas line and see if it is leaking there. Or better yet, turn down the gas and remove the gas line from the coupler by unscrewing that nut. Is there a washer in there? Nine times out of ten there isn't one in there which causes a leak.

[BrewGuru]

How many taps are you driving with this tank? Number of manifolds and type? (metal vs. plastic).

If you have several, look at your inline connections and manifolds first, you can dunk these in a nice shallow pan / food storage container and observe for leaks, you'd be amazed how many times what appears to be a properly done connection with a tight Oetiker clamp will spit out small co2 bubbles when dunked even though it passed the soapy water test.

Generally speaking, 90% of CO2 leaks that are NOT related to the tank washer, are located at high failure rate points being connections to tavern head barbs and manifolds.

I would not recommend dunking the regulator, some can handle it, some cannot,. Diaphragm failure is usually notably audible, and tank connections cause most of the problems, if you have a multi gauge regulator, carefully use a pipet to dribble soap water on the gauge connections to the body and watch for bubbles, forget about a spray bottle, it introduces way too many little bubbles. If you have already eliminated every other possibility by soap and dunk test, thoroughly clean the regulator sealing surface, get a brand new nylon or fiber tank washer, really crank down on the nut and try again to see if it holds pressure.

Good Luck!

[twhayes7]

I only have two taps with this system and I've got the Double Gauge - CO2 Primary - Premium Series regulator, per the micromatic website: (http://www.micromatic.com/draft-keg-...s-pid-642.html), except, as opposed to the one pictured, mine has two 5/16" outlet barbs; they are, as pictured, to which I've affixed the gas hoses and clamped them not with the Oetiker clamp but with some white plastic clamps that I had to push shut with pliers (perhaps I should chuck these and go to homedepot and get more Oetiker clamps?); the same arrangement is at the other end at the tank which connect by Ball-Lock connectors with the same 5/16" barbs. There's no real manifold as I've just got the two barbs from the regulator.

I told my CO2 leak story to the guy as the gas place and he suggested the washers for the tank to regulator connection, so I've got that in place and I did really bear down this time.

I do like the pipet idea so I'll give that a shot and I won't dunk the regulator; though I may test some of the gauge connections, etc., if this thing runs out again.

Thanks for the advice...

[Scott Zuhse]

Regulators do not like water. Try this process of elimination. Back the adjustment out all of the way while cylinder is on. Then turn the cylinder wheel off and watch the high side gauge pointer. The gauge that is directly across from the regulator inlet.

If it does not move, there is no leak between the regulator and the cylinder nor in the high side of the regulator. Next, turn cylinder wheel back on and adjust regulator 20 or so PSIG with the shut offs past regulator turned off. Shut down cylinder again and watch high side gauge pointer. Again, if it does not drop, your leak is somewhere downstream from the shut offs.

Get rid of the plastic clamps. Please report back with your findings.

[BrewGuru]

Agreed! Ditch those plastic clamps, cut 1" off each line and re-secure with proper Oetiker clamps. I can't tell you how many leaks I've seen with those quick snap clamps, they are acceptable for short term usage on low pressure beer line for DD systems in a pinch, but almost always lead to slow leaks when used to secure gas line.

Also want to second Scott's method, shutting off the tank and observing the high side pressure gauge is the key to finding system leaks, and is why it is always recommended that you have a proper shutoff for every individual line in the system. It is MUCH easier to diagnose a leaky keg coupler barb connection or sealing washer when you can narrow it down to WHICH keg it is by shutting off all the valves and opening each while watching the high pressure side with the tank off. This also allows you to pour and run your system even in catastrophic failure by isolating any problem lines.

Good luck

[twhayes7]

Thanks for the help. I will do as suggested and report back in due course.

[Beerimus_Maximus]

Just a bonehead question here..... Where is the kegerator located? If the room temperature changes by even 5 degrees, it COULD cause your CO2 pressure to change. Like, last night I had 1100psi on high pressure side at 95f room temp. this morning it was 81f room temp and CO2 press was at 1000. That's actually normal, the gas expands and contracts based on room temp. So, you could think you have a real slow leak and in actuality your room temp is just lowering. Then again, if you have constant temp. you might have a leak. At any rate, dont dunk the bottle and the regulator. If you can't find it with soap bubble, it's not on the bottle or regulator. If the union for the regulator has a bad washer, it should show up with soap. If not, shutoff the CO2 and vent the lines, then removes the regulator and inspect your surfaces. Any discontinuities, like scratches and nicks on the seating surface can cause leaks. Good Luck!

[twhayes7]

Okay, so I'm reporting back. It's been a little over a month and the tank is still pumping gas. I feel pretty confident that everything's solid so, knock on wood, here's what I did.

I followed the advice of Scott and BrewGuru. I played with the adjustment and the regulator gauges but sometimes I would see a slow drop on the high side and sometimes not. So, faced with this uncertainty, I took the first real solid advice available and ditched the plastic clamps. I cut the ends of the hoses and reinstalled with 4 metal Oetikers that had to be pinched on (not the screw ons).

While I was doing this I decided to pull the regulator completely out and took it apart (well, the parts that screw out: the gauges, gas shutoffs, pressure relief, co2 connector, etc) and re-thread taped and really bore down on the tightening; also added a new nylon washer to the co2 connector.

Since doing this I've left the co2 tank open to the kegs all hours of the day and night (before, after the 15 day expiration of one tank, I turned the tank off after every use) and I'm still getting gas and the high side pressure is steady and strong. I'll report back again in the event of any adverse happenings, but again, I feel pretty confident that things are stable now.

(I never thought of pressure changes due to temperature, but the co2 tank is inside the fridge so the temp should be constant.)

Thanks for the help and advice!