homemade glycol system

[dsuski]

Nice job, looks really good. And, yes, I'm curious about the type of pump that you used as well, also could you post a pic of where you mounted it? Didn't see it in any of the pics.

Thanks!

[JJtom]

The pump I used was a $38 submersible fountain pump from Menard's. It has an 8' head (max vertical rise). They do no spec it in terms of pressure. If I drain it and then start the pump it takes about 60-80 seconds to pump it the entire 60 feet. 20' each way plus the 20' of copper in the freezer.

I do not have a picture of it "mounted". It is submersible and has suction cups. If you look closely you can see the two cooling lines. the return line come up and attaches to the copper on the left and in the front. the exit line is behind the copper and goes towards the left into the top of the pump, you can see a black thing there. there is no trick to this, it just sits in the tank.

[JJtom]

sorry, I got it wrong "the return line come up and attaches to the copper on the left and in the front." I meant to say "the return line comes up and attaches to the copper on the right side and in the front"

[dsuski]

Ah, gotcha, now I understand why I didn't see it. I've actually been planning on doing something like this for a while and have been thinking of different ways to do it and the pump's been my biggest curiosity. Thanks for posting this, very cool and helpful. I guess the only thing I'd be concerned about is, (and I only say this from what I've read in some of the forums while researching) that apparently some folks have had some issues with their pumps warming up. Not sure if yours gets warm but just something to maybe check up on. Good luck with it and thanks again for sharing!

[JJtom]

I have not had any issue with the pump getting warm. it was the second smallest fountain pump. I had the smallest one (4' max virticle lift) and it worked, but it had very low pressure and the next size up (8' max virticle lift) was only $3 more. I returned the small one, paid the difference and now I have twice the flow. it is very small, I cannot imagine it generatating much heat. It is about 4"Hx6"Lx3"D, fits in the palm of my hand.

[rhino]

Any chance of a little more information on the Ranco thermostats?

[JJtom]

I am assuming you mean how to wire them. there are two basic ways to use them. 1. you can simply use them to make an electrical connection (to complete a circuit) and provide a signal to something else (the compressor relay in this case). 2. you can actually use them to power a device( the fans for the fridge). I used them each way.

this is were I bought it - good price $50
Ranco ETC-111000 - Ranco - Single Stage ETC Temperature Control w/ Sensor (120/240V Input)

Here is the wiring diagram from ranco:

http://www.ntsupply.com/files/products/ranco_etc_instructionsa.pdf

for my fridge (to power the fans) used figure 4 on page 4.
for the freezer (the compressor) I used the wires inside the fridge that connect to the temp sensor module and wired them per figure 6 on page 4, making sure I used the 120 volt terminal for both applications, since I am in the U.S. and we have 120 vac power.

[JJtom]

I was looking at another post, he had the link to his pump. this has the same specs as mine and looks identical. I got mine at Menards for $10 less.

Fountain Pro Pump WT 345 - Serenity Health

[rhdmr2t]

so i guess at this point i was wondering a little more about the trunk lines.. you wrapped all lines with the aluminum tape then the other teflon and so fourth.. and the coolant lines have to be a continuous loop correct??? love this post.. just what i was looking for.. was about to pick up a glycol unit and trunk lines but this diy seems to be the trick

[JJtom]

I simply looked at what was being marketed.

Yes. As the above pictures show, I modified my T style tower with copper to get all 3 faucets cold. Then you have a cooling line running to your faucets and a return back to the freezer.

Micromatic also has many good educational pages. They also have some tools for calculating the diameter beer line you need (pressure drop) to get the flow you want and not over or under pressurize your kegs. Kegman has some as well, they have a couple good pages that walk you through the calculations.

Trunk Line, insulated beer line

[JJtom]

It seems to be working well. My concern is how long my fridge will last as the duty cycle is probably higher that it was designed for. If you purchase a commercial glycol unit, you will pay $1000 min for the cooler. But you get a warranty and a lot of excess capacity. Right now it seems to be on for about 15-20 mins per hour. As was posted above, I need to insulate my tower better. I may put a fan in the back to move more air past my compressor, that can only help things. I chose a new fridge, since I did not know how much heat loss I would have and newer ones are more efficient, but the heat loss does not seem to be that bad. I started with my freezer at 19F to get 29F coolant, but taking advice above with regard to beer stone, I have bumped up my freezer 4 degrees and things work better, I get about a 1" head on a pint. My keg is at 35F, they say you can get up to 42F. that seems extreme to me, I am only going to move it up 1 or 2 degrees. I do not drink a lot, so I figure the cooler my keg, like anything, it will keep longer.

[Scott Zuhse]

What I tried to do was to be sure my system has enough capacity to cool. I think I have achieved that. I am now adjusting the temps upwards on my freezer to determine the best set point to reduce the duty cycle of the freezer. I do not know much about beer stone, thanks for the pointer.

can you elaborate on the tower modifications? I do not quite understand the method you describe.

the water pump I am using is a fountain pump from a home improvement store with about 8' of head pressure.

I was concerned about expanding foam in my tower since it can get between the hose and the copper and then expand and cause separation. should I not worry about that?

Your tower design is such that you are requiring the heat transfer from the blocks and copper to maintain the air temperature. This is a design that manufacturers attempted when these systems first became popular and they failed miserably. The upgrade is simple. Using foil tape, join the vinyl line to the cold blocks and copper line. Use short strips but use a significant amount as this will be the heat transfer between the actual circulation versus the vinyl just being exposed to the air temperature.

Once you have bridged this gap with the foil, the expanding foam will not pull this apart and will act as a vapor barrier to reduce condensate build up. Or use an insulation tape over the foil.

Beer stone is a major issue in the remote systems at retail stores. The glycol chillers are adjusted down too cold to compensate for a warm keg cooler. This is not what these chillers were designed for. They are designed to maintain the beer temperature between the keg and the faucet. If the beer is too cold (28F or lower) the beer stone breaks away from the beer and tends to coagulate anywhere it can in the system. Particularly on the beer line. Not recommended to circulate your coolant below 29F.

[JJtom]

let me see if I understand. You are saying to simply wrap foil tape around my vinyl lines and the copper or cooling block?

do I need more vinyl tubing or can is just start wrapping, with foil tape, the configuration I have? It does seem to make sense in that the purpose would be to use the foil to conduct the cold directly to the tubing.

I will work on that. thanks

[Scott Zuhse]

Stick the foil tape between the vinyl lines and the cooling blocks / copper lines. Lay it on in multiple layers. Your are building an aluminum block which will transfer heat much more efficiently than the air will. Lay it underneath and over the top of the vinyl. Where there is not any copper, bridge to the blocks. Use the roll if you have to. You have worked hard to design and construct a homemade glycol system but left about four to five inches of line with minimal contact with your heat transfer. In other words, you are making the same mistake manufacturers of these systems made in the 80s.

[JJtom]

Got it, makes a lot of sense. Thanks for the extra details.