Newbie, new install

[icemanjosh]

Hows it going everyone, I've been reading up on these forums for a few weeks now and have taken the steps to making my first homemade beer line run. I've had a haier kegerator for 3 years now but it pooped out on me during last summer before I moved to my new house. I'm going with a full size refrigerator this weekend and I've already run 2 beer lines (1/4") through 3" pvc pipe to my bar, exactly 7' from the fridge and (2) 90 degree bends away. I'm experimenting with both an air cooled system, low power and a 1/2" copper piping liquid line cooling system where the beer lines are zip-tied to the copper piping all the way to the tower. Got a 1600gph fountain motor pumping through the lines. Got it working full capacity last night through experimentation but have not purchased a full size fridge yet. The water pumped fast as hell. Now I know that the air blower is not going to do much for cooling all the way to the tower and I do not want to over extend the refrigerator, whichever fridge I end up getting. I believe that the cold water/liquid from the refrigerator being pumped through the copper pipe will do more cooling that I expect. I'll post some temperature results in a couple days when I get a full experiment going. I probably will use some other kind of liquid than water when everything is over and done.

A few questions that I've read on here that I need clarification with:
- I've read that freon lines can be run along side of some refrigerators but was unsure if that is true with full size refrigerators 18 cu and up. Will I be able to hole saw into the side without totally destroying my fridge?
- I know that the 90 degree bends are tough for air to move and I have not purchased a blower yet because I was to test out my liquid cooling set-up first and may run a combo but what strength of blower would I need with my setup?

The pvc is run 5 ft through a wall from the fridge to the first 90 degree bend and then 1' to another 90 degree bend up to the tower with a slight angle, maybe 15 degrees. 7' total length from outside fridge to top of tower.

Thanks in advance for advice and answers.

best wishes,
Otter aka Icemanjosh

PS. running 1/2" soft copper piping with bends is awesome and extremely hard to do...

[icemanjosh]

chest freezer

I may go with a chest freezer... depending on price. Just wondering if that would make a difference with the lines along the sides.

Would probably urk the girlfriend if I don't get her more freezer room though... just a thought.

Otter

[THE ICEMAN]

A few questions that I've read on here that I need clarification with:
- I've read that freon lines can be run along side of some refrigerators but was unsure if that is true with full size refrigerators 18 cu and up. Will I be able to hole saw into the side without totally destroying my fridge?

I may go with a chest freezer... depending on price. Just wondering if that would make a difference with the lines along the sides.

Greetings to another ICEMAN,

The way to tell if the condenser line runs in the exterior panels of the unit is pretty much by sight & feel. If the sides are warm while the unit is running then the refrigerant lines are in there. Don't drill.

Another way to tell is if you have coils or fins running up the back or underneath the unit. If that is the case it would be safe to drill in the side.

Many chest freezers do have the condenser lines in the sides. The same tests would apply.

Hope that helps, later, THE ICEMAN

[bojans]

Sounds like a great project, looking forward to seeing the results. I have one question and one commnet for you.

Question - how are you going to cool the solution running through the pipes? Using some type of radiator?

Comment - You said you might use something other than water in the pipes. Just be aware that glycol does not transfer heat nearly as well as water. You will get your best cooling of the lines by running a solution that is all or mostly water.

Let us know how it goes.

[icemanjosh]

Sounds like a great project, looking forward to seeing the results. I have one question and one commnet for you.

Question - how are you going to cool the solution running through the pipes? Using some type of radiator?

Comment - You said you might use something other than water in the pipes. Just be aware that glycol does not transfer heat nearly as well as water. You will get your best cooling of the lines by running a solution that is all or mostly water.

Let us know how it goes.

I plan on getting a full size 18 cu ft refrigerator officially tomorrow night after I get paid of course. Damn leap year, could be tonight %$#@$... anyways. The shelf or 'crispers' at the bottom of the fridge are probably going to be removed and a keg shelf built on top. Where the crispers were I'll build a water enclosure running salt water. If it appears that that will not work I have a fridge from it seems like 1970 that came with my house that is little, let's say 5 cu ft, which I may turn into a 'beer line cooling fridge.' I plan on doing copper coils through the water to chill the in line water even more after passing through the pump, although preliminary testing (aka a beer and some motivation) has shown that the pump isn't warming the water much at all (2 degree shift from start point to end bucket) and although the cooling lines are not pumping at full 1600gph, I've been filling up a 5 gallon jug in under 5 minutes which makes me happy with the flow considering the length from start to finish (A to B to C) is about 20 feet. I did some ambient temperature measurements inside the tower and if the water is around 45 degrees, which it was last night, than after about 10-15 minutes of running the pump, the temperature inside the tower drops from 70 degrees to below 55.... not too bad. We will see this weekend what the liquid temperature of the beer coming out is and will of course post results and pictures. Still haven't insulated the pvc on the outside and need to do minor mods.

38 degrees here I come.

Otter

[bojans]

Sounds like a plan, very interested to hear how this works. Take pictures

[icemanjosh]

UPDATE:

The system seems to work very well when the water is cold enough. Right now I'm running into a refrigerator problem as it is not getting cold enough inside the fridge but I believe it is a frost problem/fan problem. I'm going to check temperatures tonight. When I've had the 1600 gph pump running it cools the beer lines beautifully (beer liquid temp was 39 while fridge liquid temp was 38.5). About a gallon to a 1.5 gallons are pumped through by using just the crisper drawers at the bottom of the refrigerator. I built a wooden grate for the kegs to sit on and it works great. Kind of looks like a fish tank without fish. (pictures up soon)

I do not have the pump running right now while I fix the cooling problem in the fridge. Kegs are untapped and in a different fridge. I'm running salt water through 1/2" OD copper pipe with a 1/2" ID vinyl tube as a return to the fridge, I believe that the return line is what is 'heating' up the water as it returns and causing a 3-4 degree warming in temperature - just a note on temp.

In order to cool the water more effectively in the fridge I'm thinking of using another pump to run some copper pipe across the back panel where it is coldest and see if I can get the water to drop to 30-35. It is salt water and won't freeze, especially when moving through the lines.

When turning off the pump to work on the fridge the ambient temperature in the pvc pipe rose very quickly, reaching room temperature in about 20 minutes (that is of course with the fridge off). The copper pipe temperature rose at a slower pace but still came up to room temperature in under an hour. I have some computer fans coming in today and hope to circulate air inside the fridge more effectively while also sending cool air down the pvc as far as possible.

Some notes if attempting:
Make sure the beer lines follow the copper pipe tightly. Zip ties every 3 inches should do it.

More info and pictures coming after I figure out how to make a second hole in a single faucet tower to add a second. I'm thinking 1" bi-metal hole saw, any suggestions?

mmm beer,

OTTER

ps. Magic Hat #9 was great while on tap and cold the whole time until my fridge temp problem. Gone in 24 hours :-)

[icemanjosh]

Don't know if anyone stills cares:

Ran tubing up to freezer from pump reservoir in fridge to copper coil radiator to cool saltwater even more, then through cooling lines; didn't affect flow of water at all (thanks to powerful pump). As of this morning liquid temp in fridge ( aka the "Bane"erator) is a chilly 36 degrees and the water line is running at around 40 degrees. Can't wait until late night tonight to put in the new dual faucet draft tower and tap that sweet sweet keg of sly fox rt 113 IPA. Pictures tomorrow, perhaps.

Love the beer you're drinking,

OTTER

[jumper]

Sounds like its paying off. What kind of duty cycle are you running on the fridge compressor?

Be sure to post up some pics of the install, I might be trying something similar once I move.

[icemanjosh]

pictures


The Banerator...

[icemanjosh]

[icemanjosh]

mmmm sly fox


Yes I know the piping looks like hell, I'm in the process of insulating and touching it up to look pretty for you guys. It pours beautiful beer and I am happy so you should be too!

OTTER

[CoronaVegas]

Tony's Pizza? j/k
I'm just jealous, very nice tappers BTW.

[cubby_swans]

Tony's Pizza and Hot Pockets were staples in my single days. You're missing pizza rolls, though. I have a bottle of Jaeger in my freezer, too.

Nice work. I'm way too lazy to ever put that much effort into something.

[isett]

Nice use of the crisper (who needs fruits and veggies anyway)!