Beer Forum

andysoho · #1 (**permalink**) 06-14-2005, 09:08 AM

I own a bar in soho I have four small floors which all dispense draught. Currently I am having horendous stock problems where staff are giving away free drinks or are exchanging drinks for cash which goes in their pockets rather than the tills. I have cctv and am employing mystery shoppers. However, the bars are extremely busy at night and it is difficult to catch them but giving product away. I have got a person that checks the stock every day now on certain items and the problem is reducing in all areas excluding draught which I have no way of accurately measuring.

I am going through 40 11 gallon kegs a week and I am probably loosing 25% or more each week. I used a company called brulines and their data took over a week to get back to me. I need a real time system even if it is as basic as flow meters in the lines which I could check at the start of the shift and at the end of the shift for each line and then compare this to the till data. Can anyone help please.

Are the systems that dispense only a single pint/half any good and if so where do i get them.

I also have a problem whereby in warm weather the beer seems to fob alot - not just at keg change. I have a remote cooler in the cellar and flash coolers under every bar and I am using mixed gas. However, I still seem to loose alot of beer from fobbing.

HELP ME PLEASE [V]

Regards Andy

Andy Jones

ANT MAN · #2 (**permalink**) 06-15-2005, 01:11 AM

hey andy, where are you located again, i would love to have some free GUINNESS.

sorry man good luck to ya.

Scott Zuhse · #3 (**permalink**) 06-17-2005, 09:10 AM

Andy, please call our customer service number @ 866 327-4159. Ask for Scott's cell number so that we can discuss your issues.

Scott Zuhse, Instructor Micro Matic Dispense Institute

EZM · #4 (**permalink**) 11-07-2005, 11:22 AM

Was there ever a response to "andysoho" on the subject of available systems in the market for monitoring beer dispensing?

topgun3208 · #5 (**permalink**) 11-07-2005, 12:57 PM

probably not, as you can see in the post above yours, he was told to call customer service and ask for Scotts #

USMC - Retired · #6 (**permalink**) 11-07-2005, 01:16 PM

Why not just weigh the kegs at the beginning and end of each day? Then it’s just a simple matter of math…

Semper Fi,
The Gunns

"Beer is proof that god loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin Franklin

EZM · #7 (**permalink**) 11-10-2005, 06:19 AM

I was hopeful that Scott would have provided an update to the symptoms experienced by Andy. When you have multiple locations and as many as 12 taps in a single location, it would be nice to have a soltuion better than a scale. Flow meters makes sense, if only there was a system to gather and display the data.

Scott Zuhse · #8 (**permalink**) 11-10-2005, 11:44 PM

Unfortunately, most systems available either cause dispensing problems or can easily be overcome by staff. The best method that I am aware of is to physically measure inventory on a regular basis. There are companies that will inventory not just the draught but all bar inventory and report removals to the gram. Most certainly, if the receipts do not match the removals, there probably needs to be a significant intervention as to staff training and policy.

Scott Zuhse, Instructor Micro Matic Dispense Institute

Scott Zuhse · #9 (**permalink**) 11-10-2005, 11:50 PM

Additionally, the overall set-up of Andysoho's system is such that we would need to know a significant amount of additional information about his system prior to solving his fobbing problem. This is why we encourage posts such as these to call us. It is much easier to solve problems over the phone. We realize that this does not help the forum members much, but eventually we will have commercial troubleshooting available and FAQ on this site.

Scott Zuhse, Instructor Micro Matic Dispense Institute

EZM · #10 (**permalink**) 11-11-2005, 01:13 PM

Thanks Scott - I appreciate the response

Ian Foster · #11 (**permalink**) 01-02-2006, 05:25 PM

I have two suggestions.

One, call a company called Bevinco at 1-888-Bevinco or www.bevinco.com . They are an inventory control company and they will weigh your kegs and match up your usage to sales. As the moderator said, this is the only fool-proof way to get a handle on this stuff.

Second, there is a company out of Wisconsin that sells something that might help. Check out www.turbotap.com

Ian

Scott Zuhse · #12 (**permalink**) 01-04-2006, 07:58 AM

Ian,

Thanks fore the recommendation on Bevinco. As to the Turbotap, very innovative but has absolutely nothing to do with inventory control or the quality of the product.

Scott Zuhse, Instructor Micro Matic Dispense Institute

tikithed · #13 (**permalink**) 04-07-2006, 03:50 PM

This is a problem with bartenders serving friends under the table & cash in their pockets. I wonder if there is a flow meter tap that will put out 1 pint only, like the 1 ounce shot dispencers. Just a thought. Also you can dock your I guess floor/bar managers for the shortages per day. IE weight proir to open & weight at open the next day. It is a harsh reaction to your problem, but it is also your money going into your bartenders pockets. Good luck with the issues. Let us know everything goes.

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http://www.texasgigs.com/news/2006/a...-song-contest/

I am partial to the first one "We're Rowdy Loud and Proud" - PPT

Go Mavericks!!!

CSweet · #14 (**permalink**) 05-19-2006, 11:27 AM

I've had pretty good success with Sprint Enterprises' Beer Guardian.

It's based on a in-line turbine design that measures beer usage for each beer line without weighing, etc. The best part is also its simplicity.

A simple digital counter is mounted in our office (the measuring turbines are at the kegs in the cooler) and we take beginning and ending shift reads of each meter. A simple calculation of sales into ounces vs. usage in ounces and voila instant control. A simple form can suffice for perpetual inventory tracking and later calculation.

Of course, depending on the number of stations, etc., you may want to add more meters for finer accountability. But it won't impact the beer quality or taste.

You can get more info at www.sprintent.com

Scott Zuhse · #15 (**permalink**) 05-21-2006, 02:17 PM

Check out www.bevinco.com. They have the capabilities to weigh all open inventory and compare this to removals. Bartenders who see the Bevinco label normally are on the straight and narrow due to the success of Bevinco's programs.

Scott Zuhse, Instructor Micro Matic Dispense Institute

draught guy · #16 (**permalink**) 06-14-2006, 07:56 PM

I have found that the monitoring devices add unessecary restriction weighing the kegs and comparing it to the recipts for beer sold is a sure way to keep up with product consumed

Scott Zuhse · #17 (**permalink**) 06-16-2006, 11:38 AM

www.bevinco.com

Scott Zuhse, Instructor Micro Matic Dispense Institute

Higgins · #18 (**permalink**) 07-20-2006, 01:17 PM

There is a new product on the market now called Bevchek

www.bevchek.com

It is available here in Canada through BBS systems.
It's not the cheapest thing in the world but it is immediate inventory, useage, waste & sales data. It looks perfect! You can access it from any computer over the net and it gives you as much control as you want (more $$$ more control).
We have a relatively low waste and/or theft issue at our pub so it doesn't seem to warrant the cost, but in the future we may look into it more.

Kyle

shiftyjason · #19 (**permalink**) 09-28-2006, 12:39 PM

There is a company here in the states that does exactly what bevchek does in Canada and is pretty cheap. The company is called
US BeverageNet. There website is www.usbeveragenet.com.

texasjimmy · #20 (**permalink**) 10-23-2006, 03:02 PM

This is a great system. I really encourage bar owners to take a look at usbeveragenet solution. Easy to use and we have found that the ROI is definitely there.

BeerBlast · #21 (**permalink**) 10-26-2006, 01:32 PM

I can't help on the theft, but if you are using that much beer and you have foam issues, try the BeerBlast Mixed Gas Generator. It can reduce/eliminate all your foam issues. We have bars saving 10% waste immediately. Reduce CO2 costs and pour a better tasting beer (less CO2 used in pushing, CO2 is bitter tasting). www.southteksystems.com There are many distributors and your gas company may already have this option available to you.

Also, check the temp at your taps. you should be 34-38 deg in the cooler and at the tap. Any warmer and you will see foam. good luck

mctripj · #22 (**permalink**) 10-27-2006, 11:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BeerBlast

(less CO2 used in pushing, CO2 is bitter tasting)

since when does an odorless/tasteless/colorless gas taste bitter? if your co2 does have a flavor, i think you need to put a co2 purifying filter on your system!

darck1 · #23 (**permalink**) 10-27-2006, 11:32 AM

[quote=mctripj;3971]

Quote:

Originally Posted by BeerBlast

(less CO2 used in pushing, CO2 is bitter tasting)

since when does an odorless/tasteless/colorless gas taste bitter? if your co2 does have a flavor, i think you need to put a co2 purifying filter on your system!

Just look at his posts. He's just looking for a way to push his system. Coming on this site and giving bogus advice is his way of free advertising.

draftmaster · #24 (**permalink**) 10-27-2006, 02:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by andysoho

I own a bar in soho I have four small floors which all dispense draught. Currently I am having horendous stock problems where staff are giving away free drinks or are exchanging drinks for cash which goes in their pockets rather than the tills. I have cctv and am employing mystery shoppers. However, the bars are extremely busy at night and it is difficult to catch them but giving product away. I have got a person that checks the stock every day now on certain items and the problem is reducing in all areas excluding draught which I have no way of accurately measuring.

I am going through 40 11 gallon kegs a week and I am probably loosing 25% or more each week. I used a company called brulines and their data took over a week to get back to me. I need a real time system even if it is as basic as flow meters in the lines which I could check at the start of the shift and at the end of the shift for each line and then compare this to the till data. Can anyone help please.

Are the systems that dispense only a single pint/half any good and if so where do i get them.

I also have a problem whereby in warm weather the beer seems to fob alot - not just at keg change. I have a remote cooler in the cellar and flash coolers under every bar and I am using mixed gas. However, I still seem to loose alot of beer from fobbing.

HELP ME PLEASE [V]

Regards Andy

Andy Jones

draftmaster · #25 (**permalink**) 10-27-2006, 02:56 PM

hey andy chris here from draftmaster beer services
i service all nyc
your problem is hard to figure out need to know how long lines are /walk in temp/if lines are clean/what kind of gas or have you a blender
is same keg servicing different towers

and also that system with pint 1/2 pint is not so good
and also needs someone there to bypass it when you get your lines cleaned
plus you need to take off the electronics to properly clean faucet

post back maybe i can help

Scott Zuhse · #26 (**permalink**) 10-28-2006, 01:59 PM

Andy,

Seems that you have a handle on pilferage but the fobbing is where the majority of your loss is coming from. Other than using flash chillers, not much to go on as to your foaming issues. Flash chillers are notorious for under performing in high volume and high temperature environments. The high pressure use with a gas blender will compensate for temperature issues somewhat.

Please advise on as much detail as possible so that we may asssit you in reducing your excess fobbing.

Scott Zuhse · #27 (**permalink**) 10-28-2006, 02:00 PM

Andy,

Seems that you have a handle on pilferage but the fobbing is where the majority of your loss is coming from. Other than using flash chillers, not much to go on as to your foaming issues. Flash chillers are notorious for under performing in high volume and high temperature environments. The high pressure use with a gas blender will compensate for temperature issues somewhat.

Please advise on as much detail as possible so that we may assist you in reducing your excess fobbing.

Barmaid · #28 (**permalink**) 01-23-2007, 01:50 PM

The reaction between beer and CO2 can make the beer taste bitter, its not the CO2- which, your right, is odorless/tasteless/colorless.

johnmamis · #29 (**permalink**) 12-02-2007, 08:28 AM

Sorry andy about your losses.
Could you possiby try to calculate the amount of money in profits that one keg brings in and then set up a target for the staff to attain and account for.
i.e. one keg costs you 10 pounds
profit per keg is 5 pounds
allocate each of your staff 5 kegs
at the end of the shift / selling period request for 75 pounds/or 72.5 pounds(let the 0.5 pounds per barrel be the staffs tip)

The system should probably work best with new staff though
regards
john

BigBadJohn · #30 (**permalink**) 12-03-2007, 11:06 AM

Maybe you could get smart strips for the kegs?
It wouldnt be a totally accurate way of measuring but atleast it would show you the level the kegs are at

bobber9533 · #31 (**permalink**) 08-04-2008, 09:32 AM

Proper pouring will eliminate profits from going down the drain. Watch for this.

cellbuilder · #32 (**permalink**) 08-12-2008, 12:57 AM

andysoho, JD here in Bangkok. You should look at the HoResCon Draught Beer Control system out of Denmark. Designed specifically to prevent loss due to theft and over pouring. Generate your own complete daily report of volume through taps. Compare this to your daily POS report and nail down the shift, bartender or malfunction. Also micro-matics' FOB's (Foam on Beer detectors) to try and keep gas out of the beer line and full of beer. Also the comment earlier about line length and temperature can be a root cause of foam. The FOB's can be located on the dispense head and/or a wall mounted unit.

tc12345 · #33 (**permalink**) 09-08-2008, 01:56 PM

The Brulines equipment is now far more advanced than it used to be. You can now view not only the indivdual pints served but also the temperature of each live on the web. Get in touch with the BQM Team. Contact details are at Brulines Group

HBSean · #34 (**permalink**) 11-30-2008, 09:33 PM

Andy,
There is a new product on the market that may help your problems. It measures draft beer flow in real time. You can compare the data with POS summaries and calculate exactly how much money you are losing. You can isolate the problem employees and deal with them. The product is simple to install and costs $195 per tap. Try one out and see if you like it. Visit Parker Technologies Introduces TapMate, a Self-Powered, Self-Contained, Tamperproof Draft Beer Flow Measurement Device.
Sean

gook4397 · #35 (**permalink**) 02-15-2009, 01:28 PM

Go to Keg Check, Brewery Equipment, Makes Stock Control Easy! they've got just what your looking for.

HBSean · #36 (**permalink**) 02-17-2009, 01:30 PM

What if my keg storage room looks like this? I have kegs stacked on kegs. I would have to move eight 155 lb barrels to weigh one keg in the back.

gook4397 · #37 (**permalink**) 02-22-2009, 10:27 AM

It’s all relative to cost. There are more expensive solutions that fit in-line and still measure the contents of the Keg it’s much more expensive and requires regular service. Here in the UK we don’t have the racking problem the same because if a bar turns over such volume then we would use the larger 22 Gallon (100 litre) kegs or even in some cases 36 gallon. Whereas I understand your kegs are generally 15.5 US Gallons (58 litres). Sorry that doesn’t help with your direct point.