Why illegal for distributors in some states?

[Divinity Draft]

Is it illegal for distributors in some states to clean lines because it is a conflict of interest? Opinions here? Hmmmm.....maybe it creates more jobs via line cleaners and draft techs. I wonder why someone hasn't tried to initiate legislation in the other states to also make it the retail's responsibility. I think that would help the quality of beer tremendously; with no one enforcing cleaning standards here in NC, lines are forgotten about. However, the establishments are left to think that their lines are actually getting cleaned! Draft quality suffers! and worse...lines left unmaintained become unbalanced and foamy: something that the distributors might not mind. Hmm...makes you wonder. I would love to work towards an industry nationwide standard.

[wineglow]

In NYS it is considered illegal for a distributor to clean lines if there is a company in the area that provides the service for a fee. A retailer would be more inclined to purchase beer from a distributor that cleaned them for free.

I would like to see a standard and have all line cleaners licienced, but it would never happen. I have competitors who do not clean the faucets and use hot water to clean - I found one guy using Dawn detergent to clean lines.

Health departments don't want to get involved because they claim bacteria in lines is not harmful. I have found lines that had not been cleaned in years that contain worm like objects and once an outside line that was taken off in the winter and reconnected by the owner in the spring stopped pouring and I found wild mushroons had grown in the lines.

Has anyone found unusual things?

[Brianatkcdraft]

here in illinois where its illeagal for distributors to clean lines,from how i interpet the law its about not creating monoply in the biz. i also have seen other cleaners use hot water,dont break apart and clean faucets. in and out in 5-10min. and pay me.really gives us folks who really care about our craft(and beer) a black eye.some one told me that there are states that require liscensing,ive also heard(rumor?) in washington st. you have to have an associates in chemistry. gotta roll, the route calls,cya,brianatkcdraft

[TAPMAN]

In PA., it is illegal for the distibutors to clean lines.( Good for me.)I guess the reasoning is that the Bud guy could mess with the Miller guy's stuff, but we all know that nothing like that would ever happen. In fact, they are not suppose to do anything except supply and maybe change out the couplers and the tap markers and nothing in between. Years ago they would do just about anything to get that faucet, including install systems or supply keg boxes as long as most of the faucets are theirs. They wouldn't have only their beer on 'cause that would look suspicious. About 20 Years ago, The PLCB along with the BATF, came down hard on the wholesalers for these activities.They still will do a little more than they are supposed to, but for the most part, no more keg boxes or systems, Although there are ways to get around anything.
Some municipalities have their own health dept. and the ones that don't have inspections from the Dept. of Agriculture's health inspectors. I have seen them shut down a tap system if it has too much crap in the faucet. It is down until it is cleaned.
The PLCE (liquor enforcement) will fine a place for not maintaining the tap system, although they usually only inspect the cleaning records, not the taps. The law here is every seven days and they are specific about that. If my day is Tuesday and for whatever reason I don't get there til Wednesday, I have too make sure that I put Tuesday's date on the records.
I have seen some funky stuff in systems, but never mushrooms. Shrooms and beer, whoohoo, what a party.
Tapman

[happytappy]

In Michigan it is illegal for the distributor to clean, install, furnish equipment or anything that would traditionally be the retailers responsibility. This stems from the archaic three tier system protecting liquor control act that was enacted in 1933 at the repeal of prohibition. Distributors do openly supply couplers and tap handles. There is no regulation regarding line cleaning procedures or schedule in this state either.

[cubby_swans]

There are laws regarding this.... well frankly because all politicians seek to do is create one giant nanny state that does nothing more than collect fees and taxes from working citizens. Eventually it will be against the law to use the bathroom at inapproriate times of the day, and you will be fined if you have to go

[Divinity Draft]

I'm not sure about all of you, but I think its time we, as draft technicians, stand up and define the standard when it comes to line cleaning. In doing this, we ensure that it is enforced so that draft quality does not suffer. This would keep everyone honest; retail would get most profit out of every keg(through cleaning & maintanence), and the distributors would not have an opportunity to "forget" about line cleaning. Coming from a brewing background, this is something I guess I am passionate about. And I'm not neccessarily talking bad about distributors in whole; I just think that some sort of enforcement would benefit everyone. As a draft tech. and cleaner myself, I would love if that meant more business for me. If standards are made then we can get rid of the line cleaners that use water, petroleum-based cleaners, or God knows what else to "clean" lines. If you're interested in tossing some ideas around about how to begin initiation of legislation, then give me a call @ 828.777.8240 or post a reply on this thread.

[wineglow]

I think the first thing that needs to be done is to form an organization and get members. (Politicians pay attention to numbers)
Each of our locations has local health boards, state health boards and alcohol beverage control boards and are subject to FDA laws. None of them seem to want to listen to individuals like us but would listen to an organization.

I have contacted my local health board and state health board and gotten nowhere. The first thing they say is bacteria found in beer is not harmful. The things I have seen in beer lines can’t possibly be healthy and what about airborne bacteria that gets into the faucets. Are all eating and drinking utensils subject to health laws except draft beer faucets? In my area of the country a retailer can be fined if a fruit fly is discovered in a liquor bottle, but there is no fine if a fruit fly is found in a beer faucet. Some states there are laws that lines have to be cleaned every two weeks or even weekly and others like New York there is no law. WHY a difference from state to state.Once you get by this problem I think you can make progress in getting legislation and even licensing passed.

The next point to bring out is that every time a distributor cleans beer lines Tax Revenues are lost!! Every time a distributor installs a beer system Tax Revenues are lost!


Next, why is FDA 4.101.14 being ignored? This federal law states that any low PH beverage like beer can have no brass or copper in its delivery system. Tests have shown that the acid from low PH beverages react with those metals and produce cancer causing agents. This law was passed in 2005 and most articles on the subject state health departments will begin checking systems once low cost testers become available. I can tell the difference between brass and stainless steel by looking! We could all make money replacing the old brass towers, fittings and faucets including all chrome plated faucets. Maybe a letter from an organization sent to all our newspapers would get some real publicity and make the public aware.

I would also like to see a sign or window sticker available that would state that this establishment maintains its draft beer system to the highest industry standards and include our new organizations name and logo. This sticker would only be available to our members.

These are just a few ideas I have, hopefully other will have more.

Joe
Draught Cleaning Services
Draughtcleaning@twcny.rr.com

[wineglow]

aaaaaaaaaaaaa

[Brianatkcdraft]

I believe you are on to something here. Have you tried speaking to your US Congressman or your liquor inspectors? I have sent correspondance to both here, but no reply as of yet. If you throw one rock into the pond,watch how far the ripples go! Good luck, brianatkcdraft.